Part 1: DRAMS in the Black Lodge with KANPAI PLANET | DRAMS Podcast | Episode 2

David at Drinks Whiskey hosts Mac from Campai Planet at the Black Lodge bar for a lively discussion about whiskey, YouTube, and industry insights. They explore the challenges of collaboration in the whiskey community, emphasizing the scarcity of opportunities due to geographical and personal constraints. The conversation highlights the importance of transparency and authenticity in the whiskey industry, with Mac sharing his dedication to debunking misinformation about Japanese whiskey. The duo also delves into the nuances of tasting notes and the subjective nature of whiskey appreciation, underscoring the significance of personal preferences and experiences.

• David introduces the Black Lodge Bar and welcomes Mac, the first guest on the show.
• Mac runs a Japan drinks content platform called Campai Planet, primarily YouTube-driven.
• The setup is informal, resembling a casual pub chat, focusing on whiskey and related topics.

"Oh, it's yourself. How you doing? And welcome back to the Black Lodge. I am David at Drinks Whiskey and you join me behind the bar with somebody the other side of the bar for once the first guest visit to the Black Lodge bar."

• David introduces the podcast setting and the guest, highlighting the informal and conversational nature of the episode.

• Discussion on the challenges of collaboration in the whiskey content community due to geographical and personal commitments.
• Emphasis on the importance of collaboration for content creators despite logistical challenges.
• Mention of previous meetings and shared experiences at whiskey events.

"Everybody talks about collaboration in YouTube land. It's quite hard to collaborate for I would say gentlemen of our vintage because in general in the whiskey the whiskey world max side of the planet."

• Highlighting the difficulties faced by content creators in the whiskey community when attempting collaborations, especially due to geographical distances.

• Introduction to Thompson Brothers bottles and their connection to Japan through independent bottlings.
• Discussion on the choice of starting with a specific 1986 Thompson Brothers bottle due to its delicate nature.
• Description of the tasting notes and characteristics of the whiskey, including its waxy and sugary profile.

"Well, I would love to start with one of your Thompson Brothers bottles. Now, Thompson Brothers, uh, obviously phenomenal. Anybody watching this almost certainly knows that already, but they actually have uh you know deep connections with Japan."

• Mac expresses enthusiasm for starting the tasting with a Thompson Brothers bottle, noting their reputation and connections to Japanese whiskey.

• Exploration of the complexity and subjectivity in describing whiskey tasting notes.
• Discussion on the cultural differences in tasting notes and the challenge of translating flavors across cultures.
• Emphasis on the personal nature of tasting experiences and the importance of individual perception.

"It is interesting. Right. I mean, it's it's something when I when I started making Campai Planet and kind of thinking, well, what's the, you know, how are you going to present these tasting notes in reviews?"

• Mac reflects on the challenges of presenting tasting notes and acknowledges the subjective nature of whiskey tasting.

• Discussion on the significance of age in whiskey, noting that it is not the sole determinant of quality.
• Recognition of the historical aspect of aged whiskey and its impact on consumer perception and pricing.

"And you know, we know that age is not the definer. It's not the be all and end all, but you know, knowing it it's 38 years old, right? It just gives you, you know, that's the thing about age, and that's why it it can still command a premium."

• Acknowledging the historical and premium aspects associated with aged whiskey, while noting that age is not the only factor in determining quality.

• Mac shares his journey with Campai Planet and its recognition within the whiskey community.
• Appreciation for support and recognition from respected producers like Simon Thompson.
• Motivation derived from community engagement and acknowledgment from industry figures.

"I got to say, Simon, um, Thompson is a fan of Campai Planet and he has both told me that in person and emailed me to to say that."

• Mac expresses gratitude for the support and recognition from Simon Thompson, emphasizing the motivational impact of such acknowledgment.

• The pandemic provided the opportunity to focus on video content creation due to travel restrictions in Japan.
• The speaker initially engaged in travel consultancy and writing, using newfound free time to improve editing skills.
• A 12-week challenge was set to release one video per week, significantly boosting editing capabilities and resulting in a viral video.

"I set myself a 12-week channel where I was going to put out one video a week for 12 weeks."

• The disciplined approach to content creation led to skill enhancement and audience engagement.

• The speaker experienced the unpredictable nature of YouTube viewership, with significant disparities in video performance.
• Videos on trending topics like Super Nintendo World saw high engagement, whereas niche topics struggled for views.

"The video I released the next week, I haven't looked at it for a while. It was a video about a mascot festival that I'd attended a couple of years ago."

• The contrast in viewership highlights the platform's volatility and the importance of trending content.

• A suggestion from a friend to create content on Foo Fighters' Japanese sake inspired the creation of a dedicated brand.
• The need for detailed explanations and historical context in videos led to the establishment of Campai Planet.

"I realized that this needed its own brand actually."

• The complexity of content creation necessitated a specialized platform to adequately cover intricate topics.

• The speaker's passion for sharing accurate information and correcting misinformation, especially about Japanese whiskey, drives content creation.
• The process of verifying information, even taking 18 months for a single video, underscores the commitment to accuracy.

"It took me 18 months... going back and forth with the company."

• The dedication to factual content reflects the speaker's investigative approach to journalism within the niche.

• The speaker aims to combat misinformation in the industry by providing verified information and transparency.
• The lack of transparency from companies and brand ambassadors presents significant challenges.

"They're either they don't know they are withheld information by their own companies or they know the information but they're unwilling to release it."

• The pursuit of transparency is crucial for informed consumer decisions, paralleling broader trends in consumer awareness.

• The speaker draws parallels between the travel business and content creation, emphasizing the importance of accurate information.
• The commitment to educating and guiding audiences is evident in both the travel and video content domains.

"This is what you would want to know. And same as if you were putting out a whiskey, this is what you would kind of do."

• The consistency in approach across different ventures highlights the speaker's dedication to informative and engaging storytelling.

• Consumers often rely on brand reputation, label design, and transparency when selecting whiskey, as it is uncommon to taste a whiskey before purchasing a full bottle.
• Transparency in the production process is crucial; lack of it can deter potential customers, regardless of the product's quality.
• The appeal of a brand and its behavior can significantly influence purchasing decisions, especially in markets like Japan.

"We're going on the brand. We're going on the bottler. We're going on the label. Do we want that sitting on our shelves? We're going on the ABV. We're going on clues as whiskey enthusiasts to try to help us come up with a triangulation of whether we're going to like this or not."

• This quote emphasizes the various factors consumers consider when choosing a whiskey, highlighting the importance of brand, bottler, label, and ABV in decision-making.

"There are some whiskeys that I do not buy in Japan... their lack of transparency means that they're just never going to make a customer out of it."

• This statement underscores how a lack of transparency in production can lead to consumer distrust and rejection of a brand.

• Japanese whiskey faces unique challenges in authenticity, with products often marketed as Japanese despite not being produced in Japan.
• The definition of "Made in Japan" is straightforward, yet there is ongoing confusion and misrepresentation in the market.
• Consumers need to be informed to avoid purchasing misleading products.

"You can walk into little or Aldi or Tesco's or Sainsbury's or any liquor store on Earth and there will be bottles on that shelf that look Japanese because they have Mount Fuji on the label and they sound Japanese because they have a Japanese name and they do not contain liquid that was made in Japan."

• This quote highlights the misleading marketing practices that exploit Japanese cultural symbols to sell products not authentically Japanese.

"It is frankly absolutely wild that 102 years on from the establishment of Japanese whiskey... we're still having this conversation."

• This statement reflects frustration with the ongoing issue of misrepresentation in Japanese whiskey, despite its long history.

• Individual preferences, such as aversion to bitterness, influence whiskey tasting experiences and evaluations.
• Specific tasting notes, like balance and sweetness, are key in appreciating whiskey.
• Personal experiences and memories often shape one's interpretation of flavors.

"Bitterness is not a characteristic I like... but of course, we're older now, you know, we don't have the same pallets that we did when we were much younger."

• This quote illustrates how personal taste preferences evolve over time, affecting how individuals perceive whiskey flavors.

"It's got again I use the word confectionary, but like that sugar dust thing that you would find on like a Turkish delight."

• This statement provides a vivid example of how specific flavors and textures in whiskey can evoke particular sensory experiences.

• Scoring systems for whiskey, such as those used in wine, are often criticized for their subjectivity and inconsistency.
• Personal biases and market factors, like price and availability, can skew scoring.
• Some prefer not to score whiskey, emphasizing the personal nature of taste and the challenge of maintaining consistency.

"I really don't like the kind of the wine style scoring system where you know like 85 is... basically crap."

• This quote criticizes the wine-style scoring system for its lack of meaningful differentiation between scores.

"The intrinsic act of scoring is flawed for me because... how do you ensure consistency across time?"

• This statement questions the reliability of scoring systems, highlighting the difficulty in maintaining consistent evaluations over time.

• The price of whiskey can significantly impact its perceived value, with international pricing variations affecting consumer perception.
• The value is often assessed relative to personal experiences and market norms, rather than absolute terms.
• Some whiskeys offer exceptional value for money, enhancing their appeal despite high prices.

"Blue Johnny Walker, Blue Label is by all accounts a lovely whiskey to drink... 16 quid. No. Not a chance in hell."

• This quote illustrates how high prices can deter consumers, even when the product is of high quality.

"Sakar... they've got two flagship single malts on the shelves in Japan for 6,600 yen... and I really like the Togoi. Very unusual."

• This statement highlights a positive example of value for money in the whiskey market, showcasing affordable yet high-quality options.

• Discussion on the presence of fake Japanese whiskies in Europe and efforts to maintain brand identity.
• Introduction of new genuine Japanese whisky products at competitive prices.
• The trend in Japanese whisky market towards luxury and collectible items.

"Japanese whiskies and that is still on the shelves in Europe. A lot of it is in Europe. So they've kept that name."

• The persistence of fake Japanese whiskies in the European market and the importance of brand continuity.

"So, they're they're pushing the trend. And just on value, I mean, you know, last year at Whiskey Show 2024, uh I reviewed um the four bottles that composed the 2024 Tukuri Waka collection from Tanto."

• The Japanese whisky market is expanding with new releases and maintaining a focus on value and authenticity.

• The high prices of certain whisky bottles, including the Yamazaki 25-year, and their positioning as luxury goods.
• Discussion on the speculative nature of whisky pricing and market dynamics.

"They're in the collectibles business. They're in the luxury goods business."

• The whisky market is increasingly driven by luxury and collectible status rather than just consumption.

"You know what? Well, I'm to be honest, they might as well price it at $20,000. Like the the people who will pay 75 will pay 20."

• The speculative nature of whisky pricing, with some consumers willing to pay exorbitant prices.

• The impact of high prices on consumer purchasing decisions and the role of perceived value.
• The challenges faced by consumers in navigating whisky prices and making informed choices.

"No one buys a 700 mil bottle of alcohol that's £55 on a punt."

• Consumers are cautious with high-priced whisky purchases unless there is a strong perceived value or trust in the brand.

"General consumers don't buy based on brand loyalty. They buy based on price promotion."

• Consumer purchasing decisions are often driven by price promotions rather than brand loyalty.

• The role of quality and trust in consumer decisions to support certain whisky brands.
• The importance of maintaining consumer trust through consistent quality and transparent practices.

"Support and trust like with Kosk is a good example."

• Trust in quality and brand integrity is crucial for consumer support and repeat purchases.

"The onus is on them to be worthy to continue to be worthy of that support and also to keep that trust because as soon as that trust is broken then."

• Brands must consistently uphold quality and trust to maintain consumer support.

• The value placed on new whisky experiences and the exploration of different whisky varieties.
• The significance of trying new things and expanding one's palate in the whisky world.

"I value a newer experience versus going back to the older one on balance right."

• The emphasis on exploring new whisky experiences rather than sticking to familiar ones.

"A lot of liquid is and maybe there's probably an element of the fact that we we get to drink a lot of different things."

• The diversity of whisky experiences contributes to a richer appreciation and understanding of the drink.

• The saturation of the whisky market with average products and the challenge of discerning quality.
• The role of influencers and reviewers in guiding consumer choices and highlighting quality products.

"There's a lot of average liquid out there."

• The whisky market is flooded with average products, making it challenging for consumers to find quality options.

"We're being disrespected, I think, by a lot of producers these days."

• Some producers are seen as disrespecting consumers by offering subpar products at high prices.

• Whisky shows and tastings as opportunities to experience high-quality whiskies.
• The importance of these events in promoting whisky appreciation and education.

"The only chance you'll get to taste these liquids is like what you did last year at the show."

• Whisky shows provide unique opportunities to sample and appreciate high-quality whiskies.

"A bit like the fourth road bridge, painting the fourth road bridge."

• The continuous exploration and reassessment of whisky offerings at these events help consumers refine their tastes.

• How pricing affects consumer perception of whisky quality and value.
• The influence of pricing on consumer expectations and purchasing behavior.

"The price is the price, you know."

• Pricing is a significant factor in shaping consumer perception and expectations of whisky.

"This is pro that was probably the upper end, the absolute upper end of what I was willing to pay."

• Consumers set limits on what they are willing to pay based on perceived value and quality.