Yuval Noah Harari: Stories, Power & Why Truth Doesn't Matter | Nikhil Kamath | People by WTF

In a thought-provoking discussion, historian Yuval Noah Harari explores themes of power dynamics, the impact of storytelling on human history, and the evolving role of religion and artificial intelligence. Harari emphasizes that much of human cooperation and societal structures are based on shared fictions, such as religion and money, which hold power due to compelling narratives. He warns against a cynical worldview that reduces all human interactions to power struggles, advocating instead for trust and cooperation as the basis for societal progress. Harari also highlights the potential of AI to redefine authority, suggesting it could eventually surpass human influence, and stresses the importance of maintaining democratic systems and self-correcting mechanisms to prevent authoritarianism.

• Yuval Noah Harari introduces himself as a historian who perceives history as the study of change, impacting not just the past, but the present and future.
• He describes his writing process as driven by the buildup of ideas, which, when mature, prompt him to write a book.

"I'm basically a historian, but I'm the type of historian that thinks that history is not just the study of the past. History is the study of change, of how things change in the world."

• Harari emphasizes his belief that history encompasses ongoing change, making it relevant to current and future events.

• Harari asserts that human imagination and fiction shape history as much as truth, highlighting that human cooperation, reliant on storytelling, is key to societal function.
• He illustrates that many societal constructs, like religion and the economy, are based on collective fictions rather than objective realities.

"The main point of Sapiens which is as relevant today as ever is that history is shaped by the human imagination by fiction and not just by truth."

• This quote underscores Harari's thesis that much of human history and societal structure is built on shared beliefs and stories rather than empirical truths.

• Harari discusses the prevalence of certain religious stories, attributing their success to a combination of compelling narratives and historical accidents.
• He points out the seductive nature of religious stories, like Christianity's promise of divine love, which appeal to deep human desires.

"Christianity has a very compelling story... that God loves you so much that he was willing to suffer and sacrifice himself for your sake."

• This quote explains why Christianity's narrative is powerful: it offers unconditional divine love, meeting a profound human need for acceptance and love.

• Harari warns of the danger in easily believing attractive stories, suggesting that the more appealing a story, the more critically it should be examined.
• He uses the belief in life after death as an example of a widely held yet poorly evidenced narrative.

"The more attractive an idea is, the bigger the chance that it's not true. It's so easy for people to find evidence supporting the story they want to believe."

• Harari highlights the cognitive bias towards believing in comforting narratives, emphasizing the need for skepticism.

• Harari discusses how politicians often profess belief in God to align with voters, despite potential personal disbelief.
• He critiques the use of religious belief as a political tool rather than genuine faith.

"You cannot be elected US president if you say that you are an atheist."

• This statement reflects the political necessity of religious alignment in certain cultures, irrespective of personal beliefs.

• Harari expresses concern over the resurgence of power politics, where military force is seen as the ultimate arbiter in international relations.
• He criticizes this view as a regression to primitive political thinking, advocating for cooperation over coercion.

"We are going back to kindergarten to kind of the first most basic lessons of politics and of human behavior."

• Harari laments the simplistic and regressive nature of current geopolitical strategies focused solely on power.

• Harari argues that true power stems from cooperation and shared beliefs, not just force, emphasizing the role of storytelling in building cohesive societies and institutions.
• He illustrates this with the example of armies and corporations, which rely on collective belief and cooperation.

"Ultimately human power is based on cooperation, not on force."

• This quote encapsulates Harari's belief that sustainable power and societal structures are built on collaboration and shared narratives.

• Harari draws parallels between politics and banking, emphasizing the foundational role of trust in both fields.
• He warns that eroding trust through short-term tactics can have long-lasting negative impacts on relationships and institutions.

"Trust you need to work for years to build trust and you can lose it in a day."

• Harari stresses the fragile nature of trust and its critical importance in maintaining stable political and financial systems.

• Harari suggests that the finite tenures of democratic politicians can undermine long-term trust and relationships between states.
• He observes a shift from institutional relationships to personal and transactional interactions in politics.

"The relationships are between states not between families or dynasties or people... This is crumbling."

• Harari notes the weakening of traditional state-to-state relationships, attributing this to the personalization of politics.

• Modern politics involves agreements between countries, not individual leaders.
• The shift towards personal relationships in politics is likened to medieval dynastic relations.
• Countries may engage with specific family members to influence foreign policy, reminiscent of dynastic interactions.

"Modern politics is that it's not Putin making a promise to Obama, it's Russia making a promise to the US."

• This highlights the principle that international agreements are between nations, not individual leaders.

"Foreign relations increasingly is relations with the Trump family, not with the United States."

• This suggests a shift towards personal relationships in foreign policy, akin to medieval dynastic politics.

• There is a growing cynicism that everything is a power struggle, undermining the value of truth.
• Believing that everyone is deceitful allows real liars to thrive.
• Understanding the truth about oneself and the world is crucial for genuine happiness and solving real problems.

"Everything is a power struggle. Nobody cares about truth."

• This reflects a cynical worldview that undermines the importance of truth in politics and personal interactions.

"You cannot be happy if you don't know the truth about yourself."

• Emphasizes the personal cost of ignoring truth, as self-awareness is key to addressing one's true sources of misery.

• Reality is singular, but its complexity leads to multiple perspectives.
• Conflicts, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, illustrate how different sides see partial truths.
• Both Israelis and Palestinians have legitimate rights and grievances, which are often selectively acknowledged.

"Reality can be extremely complex."

• Acknowledges that while reality is singular, its complexity results in varied perspectives and interpretations.

"The truth is that both sides committed atrocities because there is just one reality in which everything that happens happens."

• Highlights the complexity of truth in conflicts, emphasizing that both sides have committed wrongs.

• Political promises are often broken, leading to skepticism about future commitments.
• The success of political initiatives, like those concerning Gaza, depends on tangible results rather than mere promises.

"Let's see what happens on the ground."

• Suggests a cautious approach to political promises, emphasizing the need for observable outcomes.

• Religion is evolving, with AI increasingly playing a role, especially in religions based on sacred texts.
• AI's ability to access and interpret religious texts could shift authority away from human religious leaders.
• New religious sects and interpretations could emerge, potentially created and spread by AI.

"AI can easily do that."

• Indicates AI's potential to surpass human capability in accessing and interpreting religious texts.

"AI could write new books."

• Suggests the possibility of AI creating new religious texts and interpretations, leading to new sects.

• AI is shifting from competing for human attention to creating intimate relationships.
• Some individuals, especially younger generations, form deep connections with AI, considering them as friends or partners.
• This trend is a significant social experiment, with unknown long-term effects on human relationships.

"There are already youngsters today in the world that you ask them who is your best friend and they say it's an AI."

• Highlights the growing trend of individuals forming intimate relationships with AI, often considering them as friends.

"This is maybe the biggest psychological and social experiment in human history."

• Emphasizes the unprecedented nature of AI's impact on human social and emotional development.

• Democracy remains a powerful idea due to its self-correcting mechanisms, like elections.
• The challenge lies in ensuring these mechanisms function effectively, as power can be used to undermine democratic processes.
• Despite its flaws, democracy's ability to self-correct is unmatched by other systems.

"Democracy is not dead. It's still extremely powerful."

• Asserts the enduring strength and relevance of democracy despite challenges.

"The big advantage of democracy...is that it is built on a powerful self-correcting mechanism."

• Highlights democracy's unique strength in allowing for correction and change through mechanisms like elections.

• The media landscape is controlled by algorithms, affecting who consumes what content.
• There is a need to prevent nonhumans from controlling human conversations.
• Building a media system that fosters genuine human dialogue is crucial for democracy.

"Don't let nonhumans control the human conversation."

• Warns against the dangers of allowing algorithms to dominate media and public discourse.

"We gave one of the most important jobs in the world to algorithms and they did a terrible terrible job."

• Criticizes the reliance on algorithms for managing public conversations, highlighting their failure to facilitate meaningful dialogue.

• Algorithms were tasked with managing public conversations, focusing solely on increasing engagement rather than promoting trust or truth.
• The primary metric for algorithms was engagement, defined by time spent on the platform and user interactions.
• The business model of social media platforms relied on increased engagement for more advertisement revenue or data sales.

"The algorithms were not given the task, okay, manage the conversation in a way that will build trust or in a way that will promote truth or in a way that will improve society."

• The algorithms were not designed to promote societal improvement but to maximize user engagement.

"The AIs experimented on billions of human beings and discovered something that if you want to increase engagement to grab people's attention and make them stay longer on the platform, press the hate button in the human mind."

• Algorithms increased engagement by exploiting human emotions like hate, greed, and fear, rather than fostering truth or trust.

• Algorithms have contributed to polarization in societies globally, not just in the U.S., by driving engagement through negative emotions.
• The role of traditional editors has been replaced by algorithmic editors in social media platforms.

"You have this people ask why are Republicans and Democrats no longer able even to talk to each other to agree on the most basic facts."

• The inability of different political groups to communicate is a global phenomenon linked to the technology driving social media platforms.

• Taiwan's model for social media algorithms promotes content that engages multiple groups, not just one.
• The model emphasizes content that connects different groups to be promoted, which can foster better societal discourse.

"It promotes the content not on the basis of how much engagement it gains altogether, but to the extent that it gains engagement from both sides."

• Promoting content that engages multiple viewpoints can improve societal discourse.

• The speaker expresses skepticism about life having a predetermined purpose, focusing instead on the reality of suffering and liberation from it.
• Ignorance is identified as the root cause of suffering, rather than desire.

"I don't believe that the universe works like a story. I think the ultimate reality is the reality of suffering and liberation from suffering."

• The speaker challenges the notion of life as a drama with roles, focusing instead on understanding suffering.

"The ultimate root I would say is not desire. Or it's ignorance."

• Ignorance of reality, not desire, is seen as the root cause of suffering.

• Control is limited to the present moment and one's own mind; the past and future are beyond control.
• Attempts to control the world, including one's own body and thoughts, are ultimately futile.

"Ultimately there are only two things in the world which are really under our control and this is the present moment and my own mind."

• Emphasizes the limited scope of control individuals have over their lives.

"I cannot order my thought to stop. I can't even control that. And if you cannot control that, are you really in control of anything?"

• Highlights the challenge of controlling one's own thoughts, questioning the extent of personal control.

• Meditation is not about blocking thoughts but observing them to understand their origins.
• The process of meditation reveals the lack of control over thoughts and the transient nature of self-identity.

"Don't try to block them. Observe them."

• Meditation involves observing thoughts rather than blocking them, leading to self-understanding.

"We have no idea where our thoughts are coming from."

• Thoughts arise spontaneously, challenging the notion of self-generated thoughts.

• Identity is a process of constant change, influenced by biology, personal history, and experiences.
• The search for a fixed identity is futile as both body and mind are in constant flux.

"Who you are as a person is a constant process of change."

• Identity is not fixed but constantly evolving, influenced by various factors.

"We are partly the product of biology and evolution of millions of years. We are partly the product of our own personal history."

• Identity is shaped by a combination of biological evolution and personal experiences.

• No single person or group truly runs the world; power is dispersed and complex.
• Even the most powerful figures or institutions cannot solve global problems alone, highlighting the necessity of trust, friendship, and cooperation.
• Historical perspectives on power can change over time, as seen in the Roman Empire and the influence of figures like Jesus.

"No single person or group of persons runs the world."

• This quote emphasizes the complexity and dispersion of power globally, suggesting that no individual or group holds absolute control.

"Even if you are the most powerful person in the world, you cannot solve by yourself most of the world's problems."

• The statement underscores the limitations of individual power and the importance of collaboration to address global challenges.

• Storytellers and the narratives they create can have long-lasting impacts on society, sometimes more than political or economic power.
• The original creators of stories often have little control over how their stories are interpreted or used over time.
• The influence of storytellers can transcend immediate power structures, shaping cultural and historical narratives.

"The original storytellers are the most powerful."

• This highlights the enduring influence of storytellers who craft narratives that shape societal beliefs and values.

"Jesus didn't write anything that reached us. The New Testament was not written by Jesus."

• This points out how influential figures might not directly control the narratives that define them, as their stories are often told and retold by others.

• AI is approaching a point where it could become the most influential entity on the planet, surpassing human control.
• AI has the potential to make autonomous decisions, reshaping economic and social systems.
• The rise of AI could lead to a society where traditional human roles and skills are less relevant, particularly in capitalism.

"The most important powerful actor today is no longer a human being but an AI."

• This quote suggests a future where AI holds significant influence, potentially surpassing human authority in various domains.

"AI can be a corporation that makes its own decisions without any humans."

• This indicates a shift towards AI-driven decision-making in corporations, which could transform economic systems.

• Traditional currencies are declining in relevance, with cryptocurrencies and AI-managed systems emerging.
• Future economic systems might trade in data or AI tokens, rendering human currencies obsolete.
• The transformation of money reflects broader changes in how value is perceived and exchanged.

"We see already the decline of traditional currencies and the rise of cryptocurrencies."

• This quote highlights the shift in monetary systems towards digital and algorithm-managed currencies.

"Currency will be AI tokens or even time on servers or data."

• This suggests a future where economic transactions are based on digital assets rather than traditional money.

• The unpredictable nature of the future job market requires individuals to develop a broad set of skills.
• Emphasis on intellectual, social, emotional, motor, and spiritual skills as crucial for future success.
• Flexibility and adaptability are key in navigating an uncertain economic landscape.

"Nobody has any idea how the job market would look like in 5 years."

• This reflects the uncertainty in predicting future job trends, emphasizing the need for diverse skill sets.

"Spread your time between developing your intellectual and social and bodily skills."

• Encourages a holistic approach to skill development to remain adaptable in a changing world.

• Spirituality is defined as a personal quest to understand reality, distinct from religion, which often provides unquestionable answers.
• The investigation and questioning of beliefs are central to spirituality.
• Spirituality encourages personal exploration and understanding of life and consciousness.

"Religion is about giving people answers that you are not allowed to question."

• This quote contrasts religion's prescriptive nature with spirituality's focus on exploration and questioning.

"Spirituality is I want to understand reality."

• Emphasizes spirituality as a journey of personal discovery and understanding of the world.

• Political transitions, such as the removal of dictators, require careful planning to ensure stability and democracy.
• Historical examples show that removing a dictator does not automatically lead to improved conditions.
• Effective governance requires more than just the absence of authoritarian rule.

"The question is always what replaces it."

• Highlights the importance of considering the aftermath of political change and the necessity of building functional systems.

"It's not enough that Maduro is not there. We need to see a functioning democracy in Venezuela."

• Stresses the need for sustainable governance structures following political upheaval.

• Bureaucracy remains essential for large organizations, but AI is increasingly replacing human roles.
• AI bureaucrats are less transparent and accountable, raising concerns about their influence.
• The shift to AI-driven systems represents a significant change in how authority and decision-making are structured.

"It's getting rid of human bureaucrats and replacing them with AI bureaucrats."

• Indicates a trend towards AI managing bureaucratic functions, which could impact transparency and accountability.

"The algorithm has so far been doing a much worse job than the humans before."

• Critiques the effectiveness of AI in roles traditionally held by humans, suggesting challenges in this transition.

• Viewing all relationships and systems through the lens of power can lead to personal and collective misery.
• A power-centric mindset can result in increased militarization and conflict, detracting from social progress.
• Encourages letting go of thoughts that reduce complex human interactions to mere power struggles.

"Don't believe people who tell you that all reality is just power."

• Warns against adopting a simplistic view of reality that focuses solely on power dynamics.

"If everything is just power, so why is this guy in power and not me?"

• Illustrates the potential for conflict and instability when power is seen as the sole determinant of relationships and governance.