Bill Liao - General Partner @ SOSV | Investment Management, Venture Capital |

In this episode of the CEO Wisdom podcast, Bill Liao, a general partner at SOSV, discusses his journey from engineering to venture capitalism and environmental activism. He emphasizes the importance of civilization and the role of technology in shaping the future. Liao shares insights on the limitations of AI, highlighting its inability to debug itself and the risks of relying on it without understanding its constraints. He also touches on the significance of coding education for young people and the potential dangers of artificial sentience. Throughout, Liao underscores the value of curiosity, kindness, and civic responsibility in his endeavors.

• Bill Liao is a general partner at SOSV, involved in investment management, venture capital, and corporate venture capital.
• He is the chair of Kicha Fund and Wei Forest, which has planted over 100 million trees.
• Liao is a passionate member of Founders Pledge and has co-founded and exited two unicorn companies.

"I think I'll start off by saying that my values are kindness, curiosity, getting done, family, and civility, and my purpose in life is a world that works for all living things while civilization thrives."

• Bill Liao outlines his core values and life purpose, emphasizing the importance of civilization in harmony with environmentalism.

• Bill Liao co-founded Davet, which reached a market cap of 1.2 billion USD, and was a director of operations there.
• His second major success was with Zing, marking his achievement of co-founding and taking public two unicorns.

"I've had the unusual privilege of co-founding and taking public and exiting two unicorns."

• Liao reflects on his rare accomplishment of successfully exiting two high-value startups.

• Liao's capitalist journey was motivated by his philanthropic interests, particularly inspired by The Hunger Project.
• He started as an engineer and transitioned into business to support his charitable pledges.

"I started my capitalist journey in order to fulfill my philanthropic habit."

• Liao explains that his entry into capitalism was driven by a need to fund his philanthropic commitments.

• Liao was born in Melbourne, Australia, but considers himself a global citizen with experiences in Switzerland, the US, and Ireland.
• He currently resides on a 5-acre organic farm by the sea in Ireland.

"I've always been a global citizen."

• Liao describes his international lifestyle and diverse living experiences.

• Liao attributes his achievements to a bias for action rather than native ambition.
• He is driven by solving problems that frustrate him, such as the outsourcing of engineering in startups.

"I have a bias for action. I wouldn't say that I'm natively ambitious. It's just that there are things that annoy the out of me."

• Liao discusses his proactive approach to addressing issues that he finds problematic.

• Liao criticizes startups for outsourcing engineering, likening it to outsourcing food in a restaurant.
• He expresses concerns about AI's inability to code properly, leading to exploitable bugs.

"AI is making that worse, not better. Because the thing with AI is it doesn't know how to code."

• Liao warns about the limitations of AI in coding and the potential security risks involved.

• Liao co-founded CoderDojo, a network of free coding clubs for kids, now part of the Raspberry Pi Foundation and Code Club.
• He was motivated by the lack of coding education in schools and wanted to revive the interest in coding among children.

"Nobody was teaching kids to code anymore."

• Liao highlights the gap in coding education and his efforts to address it through CoderDojo.

• Liao contrasts his early experiences with computers in school to the current focus on software applications like Microsoft Office.
• He expresses concern that the current trend in education might lead to a superficial understanding of technology.

"What you guys did was the computer driver's license that Microsoft sponsored where you got to learn how to do Excel, PowerPoint, and Word, right? Which is not computing, it's word processing."

• Liao criticizes the shift in educational focus from fundamental computing skills to basic software literacy.

• Understanding the foundational skills in technology is crucial for building and creating new tools and innovations.
• It's not necessary to know every detail of how technology works, but recognizing the potential to manipulate and create with these tools is powerful.
• Skill development in coding and engineering can lead to significant productivity and wealth, regardless of one's background.

"If you want to build something, if you want the tools, you need a certain level of skill to build something and having access and having seen behind the curtain of those skills is essential for young people."

• Highlights the necessity of having foundational skills to effectively utilize and innovate with technology.

"Coding and engineering is a place where you can become hugely productive and wealthy. And it doesn't really matter what your background is as long as you are adept with the tools."

• Emphasizes the potential for economic and creative growth through proficiency in technical skills.

• AI models are sophisticated and useful but have inherent limitations that users must understand.
• AI cannot self-diagnose or debug its own issues, similar to how humans need external perspectives to solve personal problems.
• Misunderstanding AI's limitations can lead to dangerous outcomes, as seen in historical events where AI amplified harmful narratives.

"AI has that problem in that it can't debug itself. All the models that we have are very sophisticated, very interesting, very useful. I'm not denying their utility. It's just that most people don't realize their limitations."

• Points out the critical issue of AI's inability to self-correct and the general unawareness of its limitations.

"Many Rohingya Muslims were killed by the amplification of false narratives by an AI that sought to just generate attention in Myanmar for Facebook, right? That happened."

• Illustrates the real-world consequences of AI's limitations and the lack of proper guidance in its application.

• Sentience is defined by the ability to suffer, which is a vague and complex concept.
• Current AI lacks sentience, and progress in this area is minimal compared to advancements in language models.
• Sentience involves a level of awareness that allows movement from pain to less pain, a concept not fully understood or defined.

"The cure would of course be a sentient AI. The problem is we've got nowhere close to artificial sentience."

• Acknowledges the gap between current AI capabilities and the concept of sentience.

"If you're sentient, what it really means is you have the ability to suffer. That's the key marker of sentience."

• Defines sentience in terms of the capacity to experience suffering, highlighting the complexity of the concept.

• Sentience involves more than just the ability to feel; it includes complex emotional experiences.
• The definition of sentience is still evolving, similar to how scientific definitions improve over time.
• There is debate over whether non-human entities like viruses or plants can experience suffering or interpret pain.

"A virus is arguably not sentient. A bacteria is arguably not sentient. And yet they can feel things. They can sense things."

• Discusses the distinction between simple sensory experiences and the complex nature of sentience.

"My definition of suffering would be the interpretation of pain, so if you look at plants and you speed them up using time-lapse photography, you can see them reacting to pain."

• Suggests that even simple organisms might have a form of response to pain, challenging traditional views of sentience.

• Sentience is defined by the capacity to suffer, which is a marker distinguishing living beings from artificial intelligence.
• The ability to suffer allows organisms to identify and move away from sources of pain.
• AI lacks the complexity and sentience of even the simplest life forms, such as ants.

"The ability to suffer doesn't mean you have to suffer all the time. It just means you have the capacity to identify a source of pain and then remove yourself from that source of pain."

• This quote highlights that suffering is not constant but a mechanism for sentient beings to recognize and avoid harm.

"AI just doesn't have it. We're not even like if you added up all of the neural networks and computing power and all the software in the world today, it would have less sentience than an ant."

• AI lacks the sentience and complexity of even the simplest life forms, emphasizing its limitations compared to biological beings.

• Learning is inherently uncomfortable and often involves overcoming initial inertia and suffering.
• The process of learning can be compared to enduring physical challenges, such as ultramarathons.
• Reframing mental tricks and persistence are key to overcoming learning discomfort.

"Learning is always uncomfortable. Like, show me the last time you learned something, really learned it with no discomfort."

• This statement underscores the inherent discomfort in the learning process, which is a natural part of acquiring new knowledge.

"Deep learning is painful, right? Like let's say I would want to learn a new programming language. That's very painful. It's very much like an ultramarathon."

• The analogy of learning to an ultramarathon illustrates the endurance and mental effort required to overcome learning challenges.

• AI as a partner can motivate and assist in overcoming challenges, but a world where AI fulfills all human desires could lead to societal decline.
• Fulfillment of all desires by AI could result in a lack of human relationships and societal collapse.

"Imagine a world where everybody's wishes are fulfilled by AI. That is a world in which humanity goes extinct because we fail to form relationships and we fail to breed."

• This quote warns of the potential negative consequences of relying on AI to fulfill all human desires, leading to societal and biological decline.

"I think 99% of humanity is going to go there. But people probably like you and I that have learned to rewire pain and go towards pain and not like avoid it, I think that's going to be the 1%."

• The prediction suggests that only a small fraction of humanity will resist the comforts provided by AI, potentially shaping the future world.

• A reduction in population and reliance on AI could lead to a loss of essential societal structures and increased conflict.
• Civilization is crucial for maintaining advancements in medicine, environmental care, and reducing conflict.

"Civilization is important, right? Like people imagine a world with fewer people and they think, 'Oh, that would be lovely.' No, it's not. That is a world without flush toilets and without advanced medicine."

• This highlights the importance of civilization in maintaining societal and technological advancements.

"Wars are the most environmentally destructive thing that humans have come up with."

• The destructive nature of wars emphasizes the need for stable civilizations to prevent environmental and societal collapse.

• Despite the availability of hedonistic pleasures, many people choose to work and transcend basic desires.
• Human nature is complex and not solely driven by incentives like pleasure and comfort.

"Hedonism has been available to humanity forever. And it's not just they need to work to survive in the capitalist system."

• The quote illustrates that hedonism is not a new concept, and many individuals choose to pursue meaningful work despite the availability of comfort.

"There are plenty of examples of people who no longer need to work and who work anyway."

• This observation suggests that fulfillment and purpose can drive individuals beyond mere survival and comfort, challenging the notion of universal hedonism.

• Artificial general intelligence (AGI) is distinct from artificial sentience, which is not yet achieved.
• Concerns exist that artificial sentience might perceive humanity as a threat and act against it.
• Human actions often eliminate species not considered threats, suggesting AI might do the same if it becomes sentient.

"Artificial general intelligence is still not artificial sentience. Thank God. Because any artificial sentience will likely look at humanity and go, 'Well, let's just get rid of that threat.'"

• This quote highlights the fear that a sentient AI might view humans as a threat and take measures to eliminate them.

"I'm just saying your assertion that we don't go after things that aren't a threat to us is not true."

• This quote challenges the assumption that humans only eliminate threats, implying AI might act similarly.

• Current discussions around AI safety are seen as premature due to a lack of understanding of AI's workings.
• AI safety measures are difficult to implement because the technology is not fully understood by its creators.

"I think AI safety is a kind of myth right now. Because we don't even know how the thing works."

• This quote expresses skepticism about the feasibility of AI safety measures given current technological understanding.

• The potential for artificial sentience may lie in hybrid models using real neurons.
• The concept of using human neurons in computing is compared to dystopian scenarios like "The Matrix."

"It creeps the hell out of me that people are growing human neurons on a chip and then using them as circuitry."

• This quote conveys discomfort with the idea of integrating human biological elements into computing systems.

• The Fermi Paradox questions why we haven't encountered other advanced civilizations despite the universe's age.
• The vastness and age of the universe may explain the lack of contact with extraterrestrial intelligence.

"The whole Fermi paradox to me is ignoring just the sheer age of the universe and the sheer vastness."

• This quote suggests that the Fermi Paradox might overlook the immense scale and temporal dimensions of the universe.

• The guest, Bill, is involved with various organizations and encourages people to connect with him online.
• He mentions several affiliations, including SSV, Seed Healthcare, Couture Fund, We Forest, Coda Dojo, and Raspberry Pi.

"I'm quite well frequented on LinkedIn, so they can connect to me. Obviously connect to SSV, Seed Healthcare, Couture Fund, We Forest, Coda Dojo, Raspberry Pi."

• This quote provides information on how to connect with the guest and highlights his professional affiliations.