You had questions we've got answers... How do you make 6WC work with PT first Will Hamilton, How to make it work with online Jesse Catalano, How to make 6WC work in a small studio w Muay Thai Alex Morningstar What about market saturation Ep 63

Summary Notes


In a Q&A session, the host addresses questions from Will Hamilton, Jesse Catalano, Alex Morningstar, and Manny Laris regarding the application of challenges in various fitness business models. He explains that challenges are versatile marketing tools that can be adapted to any fitness service, whether it's personal training, online programs, or martial arts studios. The host emphasizes the importance of customer acquisition and retention, advising against a split focus in business and suggesting that challenges are effective because they offer a tangible transformation in a believable timeframe. He also dispels concerns about market saturation, arguing that consistent quality service and an effective marketing strategy will ensure a steady influx of new members, regardless of competition. The host concludes by encouraging adaptability and the willingness to evolve offers as the market changes.

Summary Notes

Introduction to Audience Questions

  • Speaker A acknowledges receiving questions from the audience and expresses gratitude.
  • Speaker A plans to answer the questions in groups based on common themes or 'buckets'.
  • The first set of questions to be addressed come from Will Hamilton, Manny Laris, Jesse Catalano, and Alex Morningstar.

Guys, happy Tuesday. One day after I asked you guys for some questions. And so thank you so much for giving me the amount of time that it took you to write the questions.

This quote shows the speaker's appreciation for the audience's engagement and sets the tone for the forthcoming responses.

Implementing Challenges in Different Business Models

  • Will Hamilton's question pertains to implementing challenges in a PT (personal training) first CrossFit studio.
  • Jesse Catalano asks about running challenges online and selling them.
  • Alex Morningstar inquires about applying challenges to a Muay Thai studio.

And so Will Hamilton asked, how would you make challenges work for a PT first Crossfit studio? Jesse asked how you do this if you wanted to run this online and sell online. And then Alex Morningstar asked how you could do this if you had Moitai studio.

The quote outlines the specific questions from the audience, indicating the focus on adapting challenges to various business models.

Challenges as a Business Strategy

  • Challenges are described as a front-end strategy to bring customers in.
  • The type of service provided after the challenge is flexible and can be tailored to the business.
  • The speaker emphasizes that the main goal is to provide great service to those who join the challenge.

A six week challenge is literally just a front end. Whatever you want to do on the fulfillment side is up to you.

This quote explains that challenges are a means to attract customers and that the subsequent services offered can vary.

Capacity and Business Constraints

  • Speaker A discusses the importance of managing capacity and not taking on more clients than the business can handle.
  • The speaker suggests starting with a comfortable number of new clients per week.
  • The financial benefits of this approach are highlighted, with an example of potential revenue.

The main, I guess, constraint for you is just that you're not going to be able to take as many on, but you've already said that that's kind of what you want to do anyways, is not take too many people on at once.

This quote addresses the constraint of capacity in a PT first business model and the deliberate choice to limit inflow for quality control.

Transitioning Clients Post-Challenge

  • After the challenge, clients can be transitioned to the main service offered by the business, such as CrossFit or large group sessions.
  • The speaker asserts that the transition process does not differ significantly from other business models.

And then you can transition back to CrossFit on the back end the exact same way we transition everyone else to CrossFit, or large group, whatever on the back end.

This quote clarifies that the post-challenge transition into regular services is a standard process that can be applied across different business types.

Focus and Business Success

  • Speaker A advises against starting multiple businesses at once, especially a hybrid model of online and offline services.
  • The speaker believes that split focus leads to ineffective results and that success comes from concentrated efforts in one area.
  • The speaker provides a progression of emotional stages that entrepreneurs may experience, warning against the pitfalls of unfocused optimism.

I don't think split focus makes anyone any money, ever.

This quote emphasizes the speaker's stance that dividing attention between multiple business ventures is not profitable.

Local Market Focus

  • Speaker A recommends focusing on the local market where the existing system has proven successful.
  • The speaker discourages attempting to replicate the system online due to the introduction of more variables and potential complexities.

You should just use it in your local market, crush it, because it already works.

This quote advises Jesse Catalano to concentrate on the local market, leveraging a system that is already effective rather than venturing into the online space.

Emotional Journey of Entrepreneurship

  • Speaker A describes the emotional journey of uninformed optimism to informed pessimism, followed by the valley of despair, informed optimism, and finally the realization of the goal.
  • The speaker suggests that many entrepreneurs do not make it past the valley of despair and implies the importance of perseverance and informed decision-making.

There's a beautiful curve of uninformed optimism first. So right now you're uninformed and optimistic and then becomes informed pessimism, and then you have the valley of despair, and then you have informed optimism, and then you have the realization of the goal.

This quote outlines the typical emotional progression for entrepreneurs and serves as a cautionary note about the challenges of starting a business.

Introducing Fitness Components to a Facility

  • Assessing the strategic decision to add a fitness component to a facility.
  • Fitness and transformation programs are marketable and in high demand.
  • People value quick physical transformations and community involvement.
  • Offering fitness can satisfy multiple customer needs, such as self-defense and weight loss.
  • Cross-selling opportunities exist for facilities offering diverse programs.

"So first off, it's a big strategic question in terms of whether you want to introduce a fitness component to your facility."

This quote highlights the importance of considering the strategic implications of introducing a fitness component to a business model.

"I like fitness and transformation aspects because it's easy to sell. There's a huge demand for it in the marketplace and it's high value."

The speaker expresses a personal preference for fitness and transformation programs due to their marketability and the high value customers place on them.

"Then I get two different front ends. Some people want self defense and confidence and other people want weight loss."

This quote indicates the dual benefits of offering fitness components that cater to different customer desires, such as self-defense and weight loss.

Space Utilization for Fitness Programs

  • Options for integrating fitness into a limited space facility.
  • Incorporating conditioning work into existing sessions.
  • Limitations of exclusive sessions for challenge participants.
  • The success lies in integrating fitness into the overall business model.
  • Practical considerations for scheduling and space management.

"But in terms if you have a 1200 square foot facility, there's two alternatives."

The speaker outlines two potential strategies for incorporating fitness into a facility with limited space.

"One is that you introduce a fitness component to your YTI sessions."

This quote suggests incorporating fitness into existing session structures as one way to manage space constraints.

"Or the alternative would be that you have conditioning sessions that only the people who are in the challenge would have access to."

The speaker presents an alternative option, which is to offer exclusive sessions for challenge participants, while also noting its limitations.

Financial Considerations and Business Strategy

  • The potential for increased revenue with new fitness programs.
  • The necessity to adapt business strategy based on financial outcomes.
  • Decision-making should align with personal business goals.

"And then you're going to be like, holy shit, I'm going to be doing this now."

This quote conveys the realization that may come with the financial success of the new fitness programs, prompting a shift in business strategy.

"So that's what's going to happen if you do choose to do that. But again, it's your call, it's your business and it's whatever you want it to be."

The speaker emphasizes that while financial gains may influence decisions, the ultimate choice lies with the business owner and their vision for the company.

Market Competition and Customer Retention

  • Overcoming the common obstacle of market saturation.
  • Success is possible even with multiple competitors in the market.
  • Providing exceptional service and customer care is critical.
  • Engaging customers through events and community building leads to retention and growth.
  • Longevity of fitness marketing strategies and adapting to market changes.

"We've got some markets that we got 20 gyms running, and yet they all get fed."

The speaker addresses concerns about market saturation by indicating that multiple businesses can thrive simultaneously in the same market.

"The reality is that there's 400 gyms in your market, and now you're just going to be one of the eight or one of the ten that's actually crushing it."

This quote suggests that success is not about the number of competitors but about being one of the few that excel in service and fulfillment.

"And so the question that I think you had as a secondary question is what happens if the market gets tired of six week challenges?"

The speaker acknowledges concerns about the market's potential fatigue with certain fitness programs and provides historical context to alleviate those concerns.

"As long as you have a mechanism that converts eyeballs into customers walking in the door, then you're going to be okay."

This quote emphasizes the importance of having effective marketing strategies that consistently attract and convert potential customers.

Evolution of Gym Marketing

  • The advent of Internet advertising allowed small budget entries into the market.
  • Increased speed of marketing tests enabled faster iteration of promotional strategies.
  • Six-week challenges were found to be effective at one facility starting around 2013.
  • Historically, gym marketing relied on the fact that the average woman diets five times a year, ensuring fresh eyes on each campaign.
  • The emphasis on crafting an offer that converts best, with a preference for a single, effective front-end promotion.
  • The current recommended strategy involves a front-end offer that leads to a strategy call.
  • A suggestion to sell a front-end product or service priced between $500 to $700 upon new customer acquisition.
  • The PT first model and challenge model are presented as alternative acquisition processes.

The advent of Internet advertising allowed people to start with A-5-A day budget, and so lots more fish could enter the marketplace.

This quote highlights the democratization of marketing entry points due to the affordability of Internet advertising.

And so the front end promotions that they usually had was for one month, free stuff like no initiation fee, things like that, that they would use to get people in the door.

This quote describes common promotional tactics used by gyms to attract new members.

Now, we started running challenges, six week challenges, in 2013 at my facility.

This quote indicates the speaker's personal experience with implementing six-week challenges, suggesting their effectiveness in attracting customers.

And so right now, I'm a big advocate of have one front end that works the best.

The speaker advocates for focusing on a single, effective front-end promotional strategy.

If you want to have a way of liquidating that attention, right, liquidating the amount of time, then I would suggest that you sell something on the front end that's $500 to $700.

This quote suggests a strategy for monetizing customer attention and time through a high-value initial offer.

Market Saturation and Opportunities

  • The market for gym memberships is continuously replenished with new potential customers.
  • Multiple avenues exist for gyms to attract customers, including word of mouth, online search, and various forms of advertising.
  • The speaker's personal success story in a niche market illustrates the vast potential for growth despite competition.
  • The size of the weight loss market, particularly among women, is emphasized as an opportunity for gym growth.
  • Even with 400 gyms in a city, there is a significant number of new sign-ups each month, indicating a robust market.

Every single day, there's 400 gyms in the market. Every single day. Each one of those gyms has new people who walk in the door.

This quote emphasizes the daily opportunities for gym memberships due to the number of gyms and potential customers.

The amount of traffic that is out there is so much bigger than people are giving credit for it.

The speaker suggests that the potential customer base is much larger than commonly perceived.

Like, I'm in a niche of a niche of a niche, and we're still able to grow to the size that we are.

This quote illustrates the speaker's success in a highly specialized market segment, reinforcing the potential for growth despite saturation.

If you have 400 gyms, and each one of those gyms, on average, signs up ten new customers a month, you're talking 4000 new people a month who are signing up for gym memberships across a city.

The quote provides a calculation to show the volume of new gym memberships in a city, highlighting the market's size.

Networking and Community Engagement

  • The show hosts have begun posting on LinkedIn and are seeking to connect with their audience.
  • Listeners are encouraged to send connection requests and suggest other connections.
  • The hosts express a desire to engage with their community and show appreciation for their audience's support.

So send me a connection request, a note letting me know that you listen to the show and I will accept it.

This quote is an invitation for listeners to connect with the hosts on LinkedIn, fostering community engagement.

There's anyone you think that we should be connected with, tag them in one of my or Layla's posts, and I will give you all of love in the world.

The hosts encourage listeners to help expand their network by tagging potential connections, indicating a collaborative approach to community building.

Importance of Product Quality

  • The quality of a gym's offerings is crucial for customer retention and word-of-mouth marketing.
  • A unique selling proposition (USP) can attract customers, but long-term success relies on the quality of service.
  • Even extensive marketing may not make a gym widely recognized in a competitive market.

"But still, at the end of the day, that's just going to be something to get someone to try your food. And unless your food is good, they will not tell your friends, their friends and they will not get more people in the door for you."

This quote emphasizes that a gym's initial appeal, such as a unique feature, might attract customers, but the enduring quality of the gym's services is what leads to referrals and sustained growth.

"And I mean, but the sad news is that no micro gym is really even big enough most of the time, even in the market aggressively for ten years."

The speaker is highlighting the challenge small gyms face in becoming well-known, even with aggressive marketing over a long period.

Market Saturation and Potential

  • The fitness market is vast, and multiple gyms can thrive simultaneously due to the large potential customer base.
  • Market saturation should not be a deterrent because the demand for gym services is substantial.
  • The key to success is effective marketing, sales, and customer acquisition processes.

"And if you're like, there's two gyms in my area marking off Facebook, so what, you'll both get fed or all three of you will get fed or all ten of you will get fed."

This quote suggests that even in a market with several competitors, there is enough demand for all to succeed, implying a large market size.

"If every single, like I told you, there's 4000 people, if there's 400 gyms, each gym gets ten people a month. There's 4000 people every single month who are signing up for gyms."

The speaker provides a hypothetical scenario to illustrate the vast number of potential customers available to gyms, reinforcing the idea of a large market.

Strategic Business Decisions

  • Choosing specific programs or offerings, such as Muay Thai, is a strategic decision that defines a gym's identity.
  • Adapting a successful business model can significantly increase profits and influence future business perspective.
  • Business strategies should be flexible and adaptive to market changes.

"Alex Morningstar, about Muay Thai that is a fundamental strategic decision for you in terms of what you want your facility to be about."

This quote advises a person named Alex Morningstar that offering Muay Thai classes is a strategic choice that will shape the identity and direction of their gym.

"What will likely happen, though, is if you adopt our model, you will make a lot more money, and then all of a sudden, you'll see your perspective will change."

The speaker suggests that following a particular business model can lead to financial success, which may alter the gym owner's outlook on their business strategy.

Effectiveness of the Six Week Challenge

  • The six-week challenge is a compelling offer due to its perceived achievability and potential for significant results.
  • The duration of six weeks strikes a balance between giving customers enough time to see results but not so long that it seems unattainable.
  • Flexibility and willingness to adapt to what works in the market are crucial for long-term success.

"And I think that there's magic with six weeks, and the reason that I think that is six weeks is just long enough that people believe that they can have a huge outcome, but short enough that they believe that they can achieve it."

The speaker explains the reasoning behind the success of the six-week challenge, emphasizing the psychological balance it offers between effort and reward.

"For the guys who know me, I'm in no way romantic about a six week challenge. It just happens to be the vehicle that works, or at least has worked for the last five years, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down."

This quote indicates that the speaker's commitment to the six-week challenge is based on its effectiveness rather than personal preference, highlighting the importance of results-driven strategy.

Business Adaptability

  • Businesses must be willing to adapt their offerings as market trends and customer preferences evolve.
  • Relying on a single offer or business model indefinitely is unrealistic due to the dynamic nature of the market.
  • It is important to capitalize on what is currently working and be prepared to shift strategies when necessary.

"It's just called being adaptive, which is just part of the game. And if you think that your business is ever going to just going to have a one offer forever, then that's silly because business is dynamic, so don't think that way because it's not reality."

The speaker is advising that adaptability is a fundamental aspect of running a business, and clinging to a static business model is not practical.

"But for the while, it works, and it has worked for the last five years, so I don't think it's going to change abruptly in the next six months."

This quote suggests that while the six-week challenge has been effective, the speaker is aware that market conditions could change, and they are prepared to evolve their strategy accordingly.

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