The Value of Pain In The Pursuit of Success (with Andy Frisella) Pt.2 Mar. ‘23 Ep 561

Summary Notes


In this insightful conversation, the speakers delve into the nuances of business growth, personal development, and the inherent value of giving. They emphasize the importance of over-delivering and creating exceptional products that compel customers to return and advocate for your brand, highlighting that the true measure of a product's worth is the market's response, not just the creator's effort. The speakers, including Alex Hormozi, share personal anecdotes to underscore that success is not about doing your best, but about doing what's required, and how this philosophy has led to their own business triumphs. They discuss the power of word-of-mouth marketing and the compounding effect of building a strong brand through consistent, value-driven content. The conversation also touches on the pitfalls of transactional business approaches and the significance of building enduring customer relationships.

Summary Notes

The Value of Giving and Goodwill

  • Successful individuals in their thirties are described as hungry, driven, and engaged in the practice of giving first and over-delivering.
  • The concept of goodwill is emphasized as a key to success, with the idea that it compounds over time.
  • Alex introduces the podcast's theme, which revolves around customer acquisition, maximizing customer value, and retention, as well as sharing failures and lessons learned.

"The guys who are players at their age and they're in their maybe thirty s, whatever, like right at that stage, like they're hungry, they're savages and they're in the grind and they're doing the work of giving first to as many people as they can, over delivering, knowing that that goodwill will compound."

The quote highlights the importance of building goodwill through generosity and hard work, particularly among ambitious individuals in their thirties who are striving for success.

The Pain of Being Betrayed by Those You Help

  • Andy shares his personal experiences of being hurt by those he has helped the most.
  • He describes the pattern where individuals he has assisted often turn against him, tarnishing his reputation or expecting more without appreciation.
  • Andy believes that allowing people to learn from their mistakes is more ethical than saving them from themselves.

"But in my case, in my life, in my experience, is that even when. Because, dude, usually what's weird in my experience is that it's been the people that I've done the most for or the extra things for that have come back to fuck me."

This quote reveals Andy's observation that those he has helped significantly have sometimes been the ones to betray him, causing him emotional pain and complicating his willingness to assist others.

The Ethical Move and Continued Success

  • Andy theorizes that consistently doing the right thing leads to continued success and growth, despite the pain caused by betrayal.
  • He emphasizes the reality of being targeted for financial exploitation, especially for those with financial means and a generous nature.
  • The conversation touches on the difficulty of building new relationships and the importance of a probationary period to establish trust.

"But I do believe that when you treat people right and you do the right things, that eventually, not eventually, I believe you consistently continue to win."

Andy expresses his belief that treating people well and doing the right thing leads to consistent success, despite the setbacks and betrayals that may occur.

The Role of Adversity in Developing Success Traits

  • Alex likens the development of a successful individual to creating a character in a video game with traits like patience, hard work, and emotional toughness.
  • He suggests that adversity and challenges are necessary to cultivate these traits, which ultimately contribute to a person's success.
  • The conversation acknowledges that successful people often share a history of overcoming difficulties, which helped them develop the traits that led to their success.

"How do you create someone who's patient? How do you create someone who's tough? How do you create someone who. Right. So all of a sudden, if we had to then engineer the game in order to boost those points, we'd have to get them beat up a lot so that they could get tough. We'd have to make them wait a long time so they could become patient."

Alex uses the metaphor of a video game to explain how enduring hardships and challenges can develop important character traits that contribute to an individual's overall success.

Givers, Matchers, and Takers

  • Alex discusses the concept of givers, matchers, and takers, and the ideal giving-to-taking ratio for success.
  • He explains that giving first opens more doors and opportunities, increasing the "surface area of luck" and the likelihood of becoming successful.
  • The conversation explores the fear of being taken advantage of and the importance of persevering through betrayal to achieve long-term success.

"And the perfect amount of give to take is an eight out of ten giving to take ratio. So if ten out of ten giving is like you're a social worker, you get walked all over, you never draw the line."

The quote summarizes research on social exchange dynamics, suggesting that an optimal balance of giving and taking (8:10 ratio) leads to the most successful outcomes without being taken advantage of or exploited.

The Challenges of Trust and Network Building

  • Andy expresses his reluctance to expand his social circle due to repeated betrayals by those he thought were friends.
  • The discussion touches on the reality that success attracts both genuine friends and opportunists, making it difficult to discern who to trust.
  • Andy and Alex discuss the importance of recognizing the lessons learned from being taken advantage of and continuing to do good despite the risks.

"I'm not interested anymore in going through that process of developing more of a circle."

Andy conveys his decision to avoid expanding his social network further due to past experiences of betrayal and the emotional toll it has taken on him.

The Importance of Acknowledgment and Reciprocity

  • Andy advises that when someone has been helped, they should publicly acknowledge the good deed, especially if the benefactor's reputation is being attacked.
  • He criticizes those who have received help but remain silent during such times, attributing their silence to embarrassment.
  • The conversation addresses the impact of the internet on personal branding and the common decency of defending those who have helped you.

"I think if people do good shit for you and you see people fucking dragging that person's name, you should fucking tell people what the fuck they did and be like, you think whatever the fuck you want, but this is what actually happened."

Andy emphasizes the moral obligation to speak up for those who have done good deeds when their character is being unfairly maligned, reflecting his frustration with those who fail to do so.

The Dangers of Impersonation and Scams

  • Andy shares a story of someone being scammed by an impersonator pretending to be him, highlighting the dark side of internet platforms.
  • He warns listeners about the prevalence of such scams and the importance of being cautious with online interactions.
  • The conversation serves as a reminder to the audience that neither Andy nor Alex will solicit investments or engage in similar activities through direct messages.

"We had this poor guy, dude. Dude, it made me feel terrible. He shows up here one day, dude. And he's like, yeah, man. He knew that at this point, somebody scammed him. And he's like, somebody pretended to be you and took 80 grand from me, bro. It's all I fucking had."

Andy recounts a distressing encounter with a victim of an impersonation scam, illustrating the emotional and financial damage caused by such deceptive practices.

Business Ventures and Personal Growth

  • Alex shares his journey with his businesses, including scaling up Gym Launch, starting a supplement company, Prestige Labs, and developing software for service businesses.
  • He recounts the impact of a conversation with Andy on his own business approach and the importance of the lessons he learned from it.
  • The conversation highlights the significance of adapting and evolving one's business strategies based on experiences and insights gained from others.

"Jim? Launch started scaling up. Then we started a supplement company, Prestige Labs."

Alex outlines the progression of his business ventures, demonstrating the diversification and growth of his entrepreneurial activities.

Monetization and Distribution Balance

  • Alex discusses the balance between monetization systems and distribution bases.
  • A larger distribution base can be a significant factor in business success, even if the monetization system is not as strong.
  • Alex mentions a potential future sale of a business based on its tech and distribution capabilities.

"And so they're fixing to sell it in like three or four, five years."

"First one, because they're putting a big tech play, they're building a CRM out, and then they're going to own the payment processing for all the gyms, and that's going to murder it."

The quotes reflect the strategic business decisions being made with an eye on future profitability and expansion. The CRM and payment processing are seen as key moves to increase value before a sale.

Personal Investment and Business Growth

  • Alex shares his experience of making a personal investment in a photography studio called Enchanted Fairies.
  • The business expanded rapidly from one to 38 locations in about 30 months.
  • The story behind Enchanted Fairies is tied to a personal experience of the owner's daughter and the power of storytelling.

"And so anyways, turns out he has this photography studio. It's enchanted fairies. And I'll tell you the story, because I think it's really."

"And so we invest in the company, and now we have 38 locations. That's fucking 30 months later."

These quotes highlight the success of the investment and the rapid growth of the business. The personal story adds emotional depth to the business model.

The Power of Storytelling in Business

  • Alex is moved by the owner's story about helping his daughter find her voice through personalized storybooks.
  • The owner's approach to business includes donating a third of their profit to charity.
  • This charitable aspect and the personal touch are what convinced Alex to invest.

"And so what they did was they set up these sets because they're photographers, right, of how. Of a storyline where she is the hero of her own story, and she finds her voice that's, like, kind of like."

The quote illustrates the creative solution that the photography studio used to help the owner's daughter, which became a business model that resonates with customers and investors alike.

Value of Mission-Focused Business

  • Andy discusses the shift from seeking wealth to becoming mission-focused.
  • He finds fulfillment in helping others achieve significant weight loss and life changes.
  • The sense of community and shared goals are what keep Andy engaged in the industry.

"But I do also thoroughly enjoy the small business phase of growth, like, going from one to many. I fucking love that."

Andy's quote emphasizes the satisfaction derived from the growth phase of a business and the impact it has on individuals' lives.

Perspective Shift and Worldview

  • Alex and Andy discuss how perspective shifts can be transformative, whether in weight loss, religion, or economics.
  • They agree that sharing a similar worldview can be a rare and significant connection.
  • The idea that non-conformity can be a strength is explored.

"Watching someone's perspective shift around the world, I think whether it's, like you said, weight loss, even. Some people were, like, religious, and they get people into that, or economically."

This quote reflects the importance of perspective shifts in various aspects of life, and how they can be a catalyst for personal and professional growth.

The Importance of Being Non-Normal

  • Alex talks about the benefits of not being "normal" in the context of achieving extraordinary success.
  • He points out that normalcy often equates to mediocrity in various aspects of life.
  • Being different is seen as necessary for achieving exceptional outcomes.

"And so it makes sense that you would be the OD man out, because most people live that life."

The quote suggests that being the odd one out is to be expected when striving for success, as it often means rejecting the mediocrity of normalcy.

The Reality of Entrepreneurship

  • Alex and Andy touch on the realities of entrepreneurship, including the inevitability of setbacks and the importance of perseverance.
  • They discuss the misconception that wealthy individuals are inherently bad, countering it with their experiences of generosity among self-made entrepreneurs.
  • The journey of entrepreneurship is characterized by continuous learning and growth.

"And so if Andy's sharing stuff on here that are different beliefs about the world, then it would make sense, because if he's in the 1% of earning potential, then it means that he sees reality differently than you."

This quote underscores the idea that successful entrepreneurs often have a different perspective on the world, which contributes to their success.

Tactical Networking Tips

  • Alex shares a tactical tip for networking by offering valuable services to each member of a network, as if they were clients.
  • He emphasizes the importance of preparation before meetings and giving first to build a network of goodwill.
  • The strategy is to create a positive reputation and potential for future assistance from others in the network.

"And so what happens is you basically plug into everyone else's network and skills by giving first."

The quote encapsulates the strategy of giving first in networking to eventually benefit from the collective skills and resources of the network.

Networking with People Above You

  • Don't ask what value you can provide; instead, figure it out yourself and deliver it.
  • Provide value through your niche skills without expecting immediate returns.
  • Impress by over-delivering and taking initiative, which is often recognized by those at the top.
  • Goodwill and reputation are built through genuine contributions and can lead to opportunities.

"So number one is you don't ask them, what value can I provide you? Because now you're asking me to do homework to figure out what you can do for me. That's me doing work, which I can just keep living my life."

This quote emphasizes the importance of not burdening potential connections with the task of figuring out how you can be useful to them. It suggests that one should proactively identify and deliver value on their own.

"If you have somebody who's ahead of you, do whatever your niche skill, if you're a fucking carpenter, then build the most amazing table of all time and send it to somebody."

This illustrates the concept of using your unique skills to create something valuable and offering it to those you wish to connect with, thereby demonstrating your value through actions.

Recognizing Real Players

  • Real 'players' in business can recognize each other by their work ethic and contributions, not flashy displays of wealth.
  • Those who genuinely succeed are often those who are 'in the grind' and focused on delivering value.
  • Impressions made on people who understand success are more about substance than style.

"But those people only impress people who don't know what players look like."

This quote suggests that superficial displays of success do not fool those who have genuine experience and success in their field.

The Power of Word of Mouth

  • Word of mouth remains a powerful and exponential form of marketing.
  • Building a strong reputation through word of mouth can significantly impact business growth.
  • Genuine interactions and goodwill can lead to unexpected opportunities and connections.

"The only thing that is still viral is word of mouth."

This quote highlights the unique and unmatched power of word of mouth in spreading information and influencing others, especially compared to other forms of marketing which have a more linear impact.

Impact of Brand and Reputation

  • Building a brand is crucial for long-term success and can be more important than direct sales tactics.
  • A strong brand attracts customers and partners who align with your values.
  • Reflecting on past business practices can reveal the importance of brand over transactional approaches.

"It's just brand over everything. Because if the brand's right, everything else follows."

This quote encapsulates the idea that a strong brand is the foundation for all other business successes, including customer acquisition and partnerships.

Customer Acquisition Strategies

  • There are limited ways to acquire customers, including personal outreach, content, ads, referrals, affiliates, agencies, and employees.
  • Focusing on content and brand can lead to a more sustainable customer base.
  • The concept of giving value consistently is key to attracting and retaining customers.

"If you think about getting customers right, there's like eight ways you can do it."

This quote outlines the various strategies available for customer acquisition, emphasizing the importance of choosing the right methods for sustainable growth.

The Value of Giving

  • Consistently providing value without immediate expectation of return can lead to substantial growth and brand loyalty.
  • The ratio of giving to asking (or advertising) should be heavily weighted towards giving, especially when building a brand.
  • The 'give, give, give' approach is contrasted with the 'jab, jab, jab, right hook' strategy, suggesting that excessive giving is necessary for growth.

"Give, give, give until they ask, which means that you just keep giving. And if no one's asking, you just keep fucking giving."

This quote advocates for a relentless approach to providing value, suggesting that one should continue to offer their best without waiting for a prompt or request from others.

Reflections on Personal Branding and Business Strategy

  • Reflecting on past business practices can lead to a better understanding of what strategies are most effective.
  • Personal branding and giving away valuable content can be more effective than traditional advertising.
  • The importance of aligning your business and personal brand with your values is highlighted.

"I say this stuff because, like you, I felt so much pain for such a long time because I just didn't understand the way the world worked, especially as it related to business."

This quote reflects on the personal journey and learning experiences that have led to the current understanding of business and branding strategies.

Value of Content and Audience Building

  • Alex shifted his perspective on content creation, recognizing the audience as the compounding asset, not the media itself.
  • Content feeds the audience, which leads to organic growth through word-of-mouth.
  • The realization that content serves to build and engage an audience was a significant learning curve for Alex.

"But what I realized was that the media is not the compounding asset. The audience is the compounding asset."

This quote highlights the epiphany that the true value lies in cultivating an audience that grows over time, as opposed to focusing on the ephemeral nature of content.

Evolution of Business in the Digital Age

  • Andy reflects on the slow growth of his early business days and contrasts it with the rapid success possible today due to technology.
  • Emphasizes the importance of valuing each individual customer and the power of word-of-mouth in business growth.
  • Discusses the transformation his business underwent by focusing on customer experience and value delivery, even through tough economic times.

"If you can grasp that concept and you can translate it to this, dude, you're fucking on it."

Andy explains that understanding the power of nurturing individual customer relationships in the digital age can lead to significant business success.

The Joy of Business and Financial Freedom

  • Andy shares that the true joy in business for him is not in accumulating wealth but in the freedom it provides, such as not worrying about the cost of a meal.
  • He mentions how having an exceptional product can lead to word-of-mouth referrals and sustained business growth without additional marketing.
  • Both Alex and Andy agree that creating something exceptional is key to long-term success and personal fulfillment.

"Once you have enough money, there's diminishing returns to have more."

Andy expresses that beyond a certain point, additional wealth does not significantly increase happiness or quality of life.

Importance of Exceptional Products

  • Alex and Andy discuss the necessity of having a high-quality product that wows customers.
  • They argue that a truly exceptional product will naturally attract customers without the need for aggressive marketing.
  • The speakers emphasize the market's role in determining the value of a product, not the creator's perception.

"If it's shit, it doesn't matter how nice you are."

This quote underscores the idea that no amount of good customer service can compensate for a subpar product.

Business Growth and the Market's Verdict

  • Alex and Andy consider how many struggling businesses could be revitalized by focusing on product quality and customer experience.
  • They discuss how a business with an excellent product will succeed unless it's mispriced, and how pricing can be easily adjusted.
  • The conversation highlights the effort required to create something exceptional and the disconnect between personal best and market standards.

"The market fucking tells you, dude."

Andy points out that the market's response to a product is the ultimate indicator of its quality and value.

Personal Best vs. Market Standards

  • Andy reflects on the notion that one's personal best effort may not align with what the market considers exceptional.
  • They discuss the importance of not just doing one's best, but doing what's required for success.
  • Alex shares motivational sayings that inspire him to meet the demands of the market rather than just his own standards.

"It's not about doing your best. It's about doing what's required."

Alex conveys that success often demands more than just personal effort; it requires meeting the specific needs and standards of the market.

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