Secret Agent: Send Your Children To A Village! How To Detect A Lie Instantly! - Evy Poumpouras

Former U.S. Secret Service Special Agent Evy Poumpouras shares insights from her career in lie detection, human behavior, and cognitive influence, emphasizing the importance of understanding individual motivational mindsets and the power of nonverbal communication. Despite facing discrimination and being underestimated due to her gender, Poumpouras leveraged her unique position to excel in undercover operations and protect national leaders. She discusses the psychological impact of trauma and the choice to not let past experiences define one's identity, advocating for personal sovereignty and the deliberate cultivation of one's mental and physical well-being. Poumpouras' experiences underscore the significance of resilience, adaptability, and the strategic use of one's voice and presence in both high-stakes environments and everyday interactions.

• Evie Pompouris is a former US Secret Service special agent trained in reading body language, verbal cues, and written statements for lie detection and human behavior analysis.
• Her experience includes protecting presidents and working undercover.
• She has developed a set of skills and techniques from her career and is on a mission to share her lessons and wisdom with others.

"Being an interrogator, special agent with the US Secret Service, I'm trained in the art of reading people's body language, verbal cues, I mean, even written statements."

• This quote highlights Pompouris' extensive training in behavioral analysis, which is foundational to her expertise.

• Understanding an individual's motivational mindset is crucial to influencing their behavior.
• It's a mistake to talk too much when trying to influence someone; listening allows you to learn about their values, beliefs, and motivators.
• Pompouris emphasizes the importance of being nonjudgmental and genuinely curious about the other person to gain their trust and understand their motivations.

"Everybody's motivated by something different. What you want to understand is that person's motivational mindset."

• Pompouris points out that everyone has unique motivators, and understanding these is key to influencing their actions.

• The US Secret Service is one of the oldest federal law enforcement agencies in the US, with two main roles: protection and investigation.
• Protection duties include safeguarding the president, vice president, their families, former presidents, and visiting foreign dignitaries.
• Investigation duties involve tackling complex crimes such as fraud, often with international implications.
• Pompouris shares an anecdote of an undercover operation to apprehend a Russian criminal committing fraud against US citizens.

"The United States Secret Service was actually one of the oldest federal law enforcement agencies in the US."

• This quote provides context for the Secret Service's long history and its dual role in protection and investigation.

• Persuasion involves understanding a person's ideology and motivators, such as rewards, ideology, coercion, and ego (RICE framework).
• Pompouris discusses the importance of listening and being nonjudgmental to discover what drives someone, using an undercover operation as an example.
• She advises against trying to make people like you, focusing instead on competence, reliability, and respect.

"What you want to understand is that person's motivational mindset."

• This quote reiterates the importance of discerning what motivates a person in order to effectively influence them.

• Professional interactions should be grounded in warmth and respect rather than a desire to be liked.
• Warmth involves being respectful, punctual, approachable, and nonjudgmental.
• Pompouris warns against being overly nice, as it can undermine authority and boundaries.

"Don't focus on making people like you... Instead, focus on, how about I'm going to be competent in what I do."

• This quote advises focusing on competence and professionalism to earn respect, rather than seeking personal approval.

• When faced with disrespect or conflict, Pompouris suggests looking inward to see if one's own actions have set a precedent for such behavior.
• She emphasizes the importance of setting clear standards and addressing issues promptly to maintain boundaries.
• Pompouris also discusses the difference between actual disrespect and perceived slights due to one's ego.

"What have you done to let people think that they can do that to you?"

• This quote challenges individuals to reflect on their own role in allowing disrespect or boundary violations to occur.

• Confidence and the ability to be direct are built through discipline, learning from mistakes, and surrounding oneself with the right people.
• Pompouris stresses the importance of managing one's environment and relationships to maintain mental stability and fortitude.
• She also touches on the idea that the people we associate with reflect and influence our own behaviors and attitudes.

"If you have a shit show around you, it's you. Because you're allowing it to exist."

• This quote emphasizes personal responsibility for the company we keep and the environment we create for ourselves.

• Recognize and adapt different versions of oneself suitable for various professional and personal settings.
• Directness and efficiency are sometimes necessary in a work environment, but need to be balanced with warmth to maintain positive relationships.
• Consistently showing appreciation can mitigate the negative impact of critical feedback.
• Tailoring behavior to the expectations and needs of the situation can influence how others feel and respond.

"Who I am here doesn't mean I'm the same person here. So when I show up to work, I bring in maybe a little bit more energy, a little bit more directness."

• This quote emphasizes the speaker's conscious decision to adapt their behavior to suit the work environment, highlighting the importance of context in personal interactions.

"It's not what you say to people, Steven, it's how they feel around you."

• The speaker suggests that the emotional response of others is more significant than the actual words spoken, highlighting the importance of the emotional atmosphere one creates.

• Observing leaders like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump can offer valuable lessons in resilience and communication.
• Resilience is crucial, as demonstrated by presidents who face public criticism but continue to perform their duties effectively.
• Effective leaders make rational, non-emotional decisions and engage in civil debates without letting their ego interfere.
• The ability to maintain composure and rationality under pressure is a common trait among successful leaders.

"The one thing I learned is resilience. You'll be next to the president... And you're standing next to them, and they're about to go on stage... and there's some political pundit on the news... talking about how stupid they are... He's a dummy... They're shredding them... Yeah. Gets his stuff together, gets his speech together, gets on stage and delivers."

• The speaker describes the resilience of US presidents who face harsh criticism but remain focused and composed, illustrating the importance of resilience in leadership.

"Not driven by emotion. They're very rational, based decisions. I weigh the pros, I weigh the cons. I look at the facts."

• This quote highlights the decision-making process of US presidents, emphasizing the reliance on facts and rational thinking over emotions.

• The rigorous selection process for the US Secret Service is designed to ensure trustworthiness and integrity.
• Extensive background checks and evaluations are conducted to assess candidates' suitability for the role.
• Personal resilience and the ability to handle rejection and criticism are key to success in high-pressure jobs like the Secret Service.
• Being apolitical and maintaining professionalism are essential traits for Secret Service agents.

"They sent an agent to Italy to speak to my college professor in Rome to ask him what kind of student I was."

• The quote demonstrates the thoroughness of the Secret Service's vetting process, showing the lengths they go to ensure the reliability of potential agents.

"They look for trustworthiness. If you lie on your stuff and they catch you... then you're going to lie to us about anything."

• This quote underscores the importance the Secret Service places on integrity and honesty in their agents.

• Experience as a polygraph examiner and interrogator provides unique insights into human behavior and deception.
• Intuition, pattern recognition, and establishing baselines are key components of detecting dishonesty.
• Overly cooperative behavior can be a red flag for deception.
• Invoking divine intervention or displaying religious artifacts can sometimes indicate guilt.

"You create basiles on people. So if I sit and I speak to someone... That's your baseline, right?... I ask you later a question, and maybe it's a question you don't like... You might be like, oh, you know... And you look down... You just showed me something different. Why?"

• The speaker explains how deviations from established behavioral baselines can signal dishonesty, highlighting the importance of keen observation in interrogation.

"Whenever you'd hear somebody do that, you knew, it's like, okay, there's a problem because it's kind of like you're saying, why do you need God to come in to vouch for you?"

• This quote discusses the use of divine references as a possible indicator of lying, reflecting on common patterns observed in guilty individuals.

• Confidence and self-perception significantly influence personal and professional interactions.
• Genuine self-belief can change how others perceive you and can't be faked through superficial tactics.
• Building confidence is a gradual process involving many small steps and personal growth.
• Sovereignty, or the sense of being complete and self-sufficient, is attractive and can make one a "magnet" for others.

"And when I became sovereign, like, where I'm like, I'm good enough. I'm good as I am... People are like, well, I wanted that. I want to be around that."

• The speaker reflects on reaching a point of self-sufficiency and confidence, which then naturally attracts others, emphasizing the power of genuine self-belief.

"I stopped chasing things and chasing people... I trusted myself. I also stopped taking inventory from everybody, asking everybody their opinion."

• This quote illustrates the behavioral shift that occurs when one becomes self-assured, leading to a reduction in seeking external validation and an increase in self-trust.

• Emphasizes the importance of controlling what influences children, comparing it to choosing their food.
• Believes that parents should be cautious about their children's access to social media and devices.
• Advocates for no TV in the house to avoid instant gratification and to encourage hard work and resilience in children.
• Discusses the personal practice of taking her daughter to Greece to experience a simpler, more grounded lifestyle.
• Believes in the balance of parental influence and children's individuality.

"I control that. I kind of look at it. I want to know what's feeding her mind, the way I choose to make her food. I choose what goes in the mind. I control it."

This quote emphasizes the speaker's belief in actively managing what content and influences her child is exposed to, drawing a parallel between mental and physical nourishment.

"No tv in my house. Because tv is like when I was a kid, you had cartoons Saturday morning. That was it. And you had to wait for those cartoons."

The speaker is against the presence of a TV in the house to prevent constant stimulation and to teach patience and the value of anticipation.

"I take her to Greece with me every summer. Do you know where we go in Greece? In the village."

The speaker shares a personal tradition of taking her daughter to Greece to experience a simpler life, which is part of her parenting approach to instill certain values.

• Chooses not to fly business class unless it is paid for by someone else, as a way to save money.
• Believes in the importance of being economical and teaching her daughter the value of money.
• Relates frugality to her personal values and the lessons she wants to pass on to her child.

"The only time I fly business class is when somebody else is paying."

The speaker explains her stance on flying business class, which is reserved for situations where she isn't personally bearing the cost.

"Because I'm saving my money. Because business class is expensive."

The speaker justifies her choice to fly economy by highlighting the importance of saving money and considering the high cost of business class.

• Views the mind and body as interconnected and believes in the importance of physical exercise for mental health.
• Describes her experience in the Secret Service where the connection between physical performance and mental readiness was emphasized.
• Practices accountability in her fitness routine by sharing her meals with her trainer.
• Uses physical activity as a stress relief and recounts a powerful personal experience related to this.

"I think that there's a school of, like, the mind and the body are two separate things. And a lot of people will be like, I'm working on my mind. I listen to podcasts, which is great, but then they don't work out their body, and these things live together."

This quote highlights the speaker's belief in the essential connection between mental and physical health, and the importance of caring for both.

"So if you're depressed and you're not getting off the sofa, there's a problem. Your body needs help."

The speaker suggests that physical activity is crucial for overcoming depression and maintaining overall well-being.

"When I run and I work out at night, all the stress. Unlike any other human being, I accumulate stress."

The speaker uses running and working out as a method to release accumulated stress, underscoring the therapeutic benefits of exercise.

• Discusses her attitude towards fear and how she has built a productive relationship with it.
• Recounts a harrowing experience in the Secret Service that involved a chase and a confrontation with a potentially armed suspect.
• Reflects on the mental process of deciding whether to use lethal force in a situation where her partner's life appeared to be in danger.

"I had this one scenario, and I don't think I ever talked about it. I'm in downtown Manhattan."

The speaker begins a narrative about a particularly intense and dangerous experience during her time in the Secret Service.

"I almost killed an innocent person. For what? For nothing."

The speaker reflects on the gravity of the situation she found herself in and the potential consequences of her actions in the line of duty.

• Believes in the normality of experiencing depression and anxiety, especially in high-stress professions like the Secret Service.
• Advocates for changing the narrative around mental health to normalize these feelings rather than pathologizing them.
• Shares her personal approach to mental health, which involves acknowledging but not dwelling on negative emotions.

"It is okay to be depressed. It is okay to have anxiety. It is okay to feel bad."

The speaker emphasizes that experiencing negative emotions is a normal part of life and should be accepted rather than stigmatized.

"I don't think so. I think I'm trying to think. I mean, like any human being, I go through moments, but I don't let myself live there."

The speaker discusses her personal mental health, indicating that while she experiences moments of negativity, she does not allow herself to become consumed by them.

• Stresses the importance of how one communicates, including voice projection and tone, not just the content of speech.
• Advises against speaking for the sake of being heard and encourages contributing only when one has something valuable to say.
• Introduces the concept of a "contribution score," which reflects the perceived value of an individual's input in professional settings.

"Don't just talk to talk. There's this thing out there, and especially with women, where it's like, make sure they hear you. Make sure your voice is heard at the table."

The speaker warns against the tendency to speak without substance and urges individuals to ensure their contributions are meaningful.

"I have a question. Or even just the tone, how you endear. Hi, I'm Evie. Hi, I'm evie. Feels different."

The speaker provides examples of how paralinguistics, such as tone and projection, can affect the way one's communication is received.

• Discusses the concept of personal responsibility and the dangers of adopting a victim mentality.
• Shares observations on how people often avoid taking responsibility for their circumstances, preferring to blame external factors.
• Explores the psychological attachment some individuals have to their traumas and the impact this has on their ability to move forward.

"Because nothing's my fault."

The speaker critiques the mindset of avoiding personal responsibility and the tendency to blame others for one's situation.

"Because it's her identity. It's who she is."

The speaker explains why some individuals are reluctant to let go of their trauma, as it has become a central part of their self-identity.

"I'm not a 911 survivor. I'm heavy. That's something I experienced one day in my life."

The speaker asserts her identity beyond her experiences, refusing to let a single event define her entire life and perspective.

• Emphasizing the importance of confronting fear before it escalates.
• Recognizing the need to take control of one's life rather than being at the mercy of the world.
• Acknowledging that not everyone desires to take ownership or control of their life circumstances.
• Understanding when to leave people be, especially if they prefer to remain with their problems.

"Three weeks after 9/11, I got on a plane. I was like, oh, no, no, no. This is not kill fear while it's still small. This is not going to become a monster. I got my ass on a plane."

• The speaker illustrates the importance of facing fear immediately, using the personal example of flying shortly after the 9/11 attacks.

"I can't control everything in my life, but I can navigate the outcome of my life to some degree."

• The speaker acknowledges the limitations of control but emphasizes the ability to influence life outcomes.

"Not everybody wants it, but it's also. I have to. You and I, or whoever has to have enough intelligence to see that when someone is like that, just leave them."

• The speaker suggests that it's important to recognize when someone does not want help and to respect their choice.

• Discussing how people can be offended by the idea that they have choices in their life situations.
• Exploring the concept of people preferring to be disempowered and playing the victim.
• Considering the impact of choice and empowerment on one's ability to change their circumstances.

"They were so offended by the idea that they had a choice."

• The speaker reflects on someone's adverse reaction to the suggestion that they have control over their job situation.

"What a way to live to not want to, you know, because objectively, bad things happen to people."

• The speaker comments on the mindset of avoiding choices and empowerment despite the occurrence of bad events.

• Discussing how to differentiate between those who genuinely want to change and those who do not.
• Recognizing the signs of someone who is 'identity foreclosed' and how it relates to a lack of desire for change.

"Like, but you have to want it. Some people don't."

• The speaker emphasizes the necessity of wanting change for it to happen.

• Explaining the concept of 'identity foreclosure' and its association with depression and self-focus.
• Noting the use of 'I' statements as a red flag for identity foreclosure.
• Discussing the psychological and physiological effects of reliving trauma or drama.

"People who are identity tend to be highly depressed, have a lot of anxiety."

• The speaker describes how identity foreclosure often correlates with depression and anxiety.

"You get those cortisol hits, you get also adrenaline hits, you get f three. It's your fight flight freeze response."

• The speaker discusses how reliving negative experiences can become addictive due to the physiological responses they trigger.

• Considering how trauma can provide a sense of community, belonging, and purpose.
• Discussing the potential pitfalls of building one's social circle and identity around their trauma.
• Exploring the concept of trauma becoming a 'badge of honor' and a means to compete for attention.

"If I'm a insert trauma, then I instantly have a community of people that will make me feel like I belong."

• The speaker reflects on how shared trauma can create an instant sense of community and belonging.

"It's become, like, this thing now that we put on a pedestal."

• The speaker critiques the trend of glorifying trauma as a means of gaining attention and relevance.

• Analyzing the role of ego and status in discussions of trauma.
• Addressing the psychological aspects of in-group and out-group dynamics.
• Emphasizing the importance of maintaining personal sovereignty while seeking belonging.

"It is ego. It is status."

• The speaker asserts that discussions of trauma can be driven by ego and a desire for status.

"I want to feel like I'm part of a group."

• The speaker acknowledges the human desire to belong to a group, noting its psychological significance.

• Sharing a personal story of undercover work involving an organized crime ring and terrorists.
• Discussing the advantages and challenges of not fitting the stereotypical image of an agent.
• Reflecting on the impact of underestimation in one's professional career.

"So I did this one thing where it was another undercover case where they came to me and we were working with NYPD."

• The speaker recounts a specific undercover operation, highlighting the nature of the work and the collaboration with NYPD.

"Nobody ever thought I was a cop. Nobody ever thought I was an agent."

• The speaker reflects on the advantage of not appearing as a stereotypical agent in undercover situations.

• Discussing strategies for dealing with being underestimated due to gender or race.
• Reflecting on the personal and systemic challenges faced by minority groups.
• Emphasizing the choice to not let prejudice and discrimination become one's identity or problem.

"How do you deal with that? And it's something that I thought a lot about when I started in business."

• The speaker ponders how to handle being underestimated in professional settings due to minority status.

"It's like ego and status."

• The speaker connects the discussion of trauma to broader themes of ego and social status.

• Exploring the psychological effects of labeling theory and stereotype threat.
• Considering how these concepts can influence performance and self-perception.
• Advocating for a focus on individual merits rather than group identities.

"The discrimination or the belief that you're being discriminated against?"

• The speaker questions whether the act of discrimination or the belief in being discriminated against is more damaging.

"Labeling theory, we use it in criminal justice, too."

• The speaker discusses the application of labeling theory in criminal justice and its impact on reoffending rates.

• Emphasizing the importance of protecting one's mental and emotional space.
• Discussing the balance between addressing systemic issues and conserving personal energy.
• Highlighting the concept of 'mental armor' as a means of self-protection.

"I think you can, like, I feel like it's your mental armor, like that bubble."

• The speaker introduces the idea of creating a mental bubble or armor to safeguard one's emotional well-being.

"It's not my identity."

• The speaker asserts the importance of not allowing external prejudices to define one's identity.