Moment 145 The Alarming Link Between Your GUT & Depression Tim Spector

In a discussion about the microbiome, Speaker B, a research expert, explains its significance as a newly recognized 'organ' composed of gut microbes that impact our immune system, mood, and overall health. These microbes produce essential chemicals, including serotonin, and influence responses to various substances, from food to medications. Speaker B debunks myths about probiotics and emphasizes the need for a diverse plant-based diet to foster microbiome health, which can be more beneficial than traditional antidepressants for mood disorders. The expert also shares insights from studies, including one on the Hadza tribe, illustrating how modern lifestyles have reduced our microbial diversity, impacting our well-being and productivity.

• The microbiome refers to the community of gut microbes, essentially microscopic organisms in the intestines.
• It is compared to a jungle community due to the diversity and number of species, amounting to thousands, coexisting in the colon.
• The microbiome is so substantial that its collective weight is similar to that of the human brain.
• Initially conceptualized as a microbial garden, the microbiome is now increasingly viewed as a powerful pharmacy.
• Gut microbes produce thousands of chemicals essential for bodily functions, particularly the immune system.
• The immune system, mostly located in the gut, interacts with gut microbes to maintain overall health.
• Microbes influence various bodily functions, including mood regulation, appetite control, and vitamin production.
• The microbiome is crucial for the body's response to external substances like painkillers, antidepressants, and food.
• The traditional view of food focusing on calories and macronutrients is outdated; gut health is central to understanding nutrition.

It's the word we use for the community of gut microbes. These are microscopic bugs in our intestines.

This quote defines the microbiome as a community of microscopic organisms that live in our intestines, setting the stage for its importance in human health.

And it's like we've discovered in the last ten years a new organ in our bodies.

This quote underscores the relatively recent recognition of the microbiome's significance, likening it to the discovery of a new organ.

So all of them are able to pump out chemicals all the time that are vital for our body.

This quote highlights the microbiome's role in producing chemicals crucial for various bodily functions, emphasizing its continuous activity.

Most of our immune system is actually in our gut.

The speaker points out a common misconception about the immune system's location and clarifies its actual prevalence in the gut.

They also provide key vitamins for you. All the b vitamins and many other components, neurochemicals like serotonin, that's key for the happiness and how antidepressants work, are all produced by your gut microbes.

This quote expands on the microbiome's role, noting that it is responsible for producing essential vitamins and neurochemicals, including those that affect mood and the efficacy of antidepressants.

The old idea that food is just calories, macros, it's fats and carbs and proteins, those four things. That's 100 years old mentality.

The speaker challenges outdated nutritional concepts that reduce food to basic components, suggesting a paradigm shift towards understanding food's impact on gut health.

• Identical twins have different health outcomes due to variations in their gut microbiome.
• Gut microbes influence susceptibility to diseases such as cancer, autoimmune diseases, and mental health issues.
• The study of twins provides clear evidence of the critical role microbes play in individual health.

That's the only thing I've ever found in 30 years that's really different about identical twins.

This quote emphasizes the unique discovery that gut microbes are the distinguishing factor in the health of genetically identical individuals.

And that explains why one gets cancer, the other one doesn't, why one gets an autoimmune disease or one's depressed and one's happy.

The relevance of this quote is to illustrate the direct impact that gut microbes can have on a wide range of health conditions, affecting both physical and mental health.

• Many people mistakenly believe that probiotics in yogurt are ineffective due to destruction by stomach acid.
• In reality, sufficient quantities of probiotics survive to have a beneficial effect.
• The best probiotics are found in food, particularly fermented foods, rather than in capsules.
• The general public often perceives microbes as predominantly harmful.
• Research has shown that certain parasites, like blastocystis, can be beneficial to health.
• Modern lifestyles have led to a reduction in beneficial gut microbes compared to hunter-gatherer societies.

Well, I think most people believe that probiotics in yogurt get killed by your stomach acid, so they don't work because everything gets killed off.

This quote dispels a common misconception about probiotics, clarifying that not all are destroyed by stomach acid and they can be effective.

And we know that probiotics do work, although the best probiotics are in food rather than in capsules, and there's plenty of fermented foods, which is the same.

The speaker is emphasizing the effectiveness of probiotics and highlighting that food sources, especially fermented foods, are superior to capsule forms.

In the UK, 24% have a parasite. And that parasite is actually beneficial. It's called blastocystis and it's associated with good health, being thinner, having less internal fat, lower blood pressure.

This quote challenges the negative perception of parasites by presenting research findings that associate the parasite blastocystis with positive health markers.

So I think people need to realize that most of the bugs in our system are trying to help us and we've actually lost half of the good ones compared to if you go to hunter gatherers or.

Here, the speaker is advocating for a shift in the public's understanding of microbes, from viewing them as harmful to recognizing their beneficial roles in our health.

I spent some time with the Hadza tribe in Africa and they have twice the number of species that we have because they don't pop antibiotics, they don't have sterile foods, they have a very wide range of diverse plants, et cetera.

The speaker uses the Hadza tribe as an example to illustrate how modern practices such as the use of antibiotics and consumption of sterile foods have diminished the diversity of beneficial microbes in our guts compared to traditional lifestyles.

• A diverse range of plants in the diet is crucial for maximizing gut microbiome diversity.
• Consuming up to 30 different types of plants per week can enhance species diversity in the gut.
• A broad definition of "plant" includes nuts, seeds, herbs, spices, and even coffee.
• Fermented foods and a variety of colors in the diet also contribute to microbiome health.
• Avoiding ultraprocessed foods and chemicals is common among populations with healthy gut microbes.

"You have to have a more diverse range of plants. So we did a study a few years ago with the British and American guts that showed that if you can get up to 30 different types of plant a week, you maximize your diversity of species in your gut, and that's that diversity that we want."

This quote highlights the findings of a study that correlates plant diversity in the diet with increased gut microbiome diversity, which is beneficial for overall health.

• The microbiome has a significant influence on mood, which is linked to depression and anxiety.
• Mouse studies indicate that gut microbes can influence emotional states, suggesting a transmissible aspect of mood disorders.
• Serotonin, a chemical produced by gut microbes, is essential for maintaining a balance of neurochemicals that prevent depression and anxiety.
• Understanding the microbiome's role in mood regulation is crucial for entrepreneurs and business people aiming for peak performance.

"Well, we know more about mood than anything else, and so we do know that depression, anxiety is intricately linked to the quality of your gut microbes."

This quote emphasizes the connection between the quality of gut microbes and mood disorders such as depression and anxiety, suggesting that the microbiome plays a critical role in emotional well-being.

"So it's a transmissible condition. And if you go back to me telling you that one of the chemicals that our microbes produce is serotonin, okay? Some sort of sort of cuddle love friendly, warm chemical that affects our brain, that is the key to dopamine and everything else that goes on in our head."

The speaker discusses the transmissibility of mood states through gut microbes and the importance of serotonin—a neurochemical produced by these microbes—in regulating mood and brain function.

• The microbiome's impact on mood and behavior has been studied through both human cross-sectional studies and experimental research on sterile mice.
• Transferring microbes from anxious mice to sterile mice can induce anxiety and mood changes, demonstrating a direct effect.
• Human studies correlate deranged microbiomes with depression and anxiety, indicating abnormal chemical production.
• Probiotics and Mediterranean diets have shown to be as effective, if not more so, than antidepressants in improving mood and achieving remission in some studies.

"And you create in a lab these other microbes that you would make them anxious or they're genetically anxious. You look at their microbes and you take their microbes and you put them into the sterile mice, and you can change their mood and their attention span and everything else about that."

This quote highlights the experimental process of transferring microbes from genetically anxious mice to sterile mice, resulting in altered mood and behavior, which supports the direct influence of the microbiome.

"Virtually all of them will have deranged microbiomes and be producing abnormal chemicals."

This quote refers to the observation that most depressed or anxious people have imbalanced microbiomes, which are linked to the production of abnormal chemicals in the body.

"Probiotics do as well. In many of these studies, if you give a course of probiotic medication. But even more impressive is if you give them a Mediterranean, gut-friendly diet, you get actually better results with more remission than you do with antidepressant medication."

The quote compares the effectiveness of probiotics and Mediterranean diets to traditional antidepressant medication, suggesting that the former may lead to better outcomes in treating mood disorders.

• The modern diet, often high in junk food, contributes to poor microbiome health and exacerbates mental health issues like anxiety and depression.
• Understanding the diet-mental health connection is crucial, as poor diet is both a cause and effect of depression, creating a negative cycle.
• Addressing diet and improving gut health can be a more effective first step in treating depression than immediately resorting to antidepressants.

"That's partly because of not having many good gut microbes to start with, lots of junk food diets, which make it worse."

This quote discusses the impact of a diet low in beneficial microbes and high in junk food on mental health, implicating poor dietary habits in the rise of mood disorders.

"Once you're depressed, you're not thinking about food. The last thing you want to go out and is, oh, I've got to go and get my kimchi today. It's just fuel."

The quote illustrates the challenge of prioritizing a healthy diet when suffering from depression, as the condition can diminish one's motivation and perspective on food as anything more than mere fuel.

"If you want to help someone with depression, the first thing is not to put them straight onto an antidepressant, which in many cases does didn't work because of this individuality as talking about, which probably, again, related to the microbes because they break down the tablet into its active chemicals, but it's to make sure they've actually got gut friendly diet."

This quote emphasizes the importance of considering a gut-friendly diet as a primary intervention for depression, due to the individual variability in antidepressant efficacy and the role of gut microbes in metabolizing medication.