Joe Rogan Experience #2420 - Chris Masterjohn

In this episode of the Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan and guest Chris Masterjohn delve into nutrition myths, the role of mitochondria in health, and the impact of dietary choices on energy levels and disease prevention. Chris debunks the myth that turkey's tryptophan causes sleepiness, attributing post-meal drowsiness to overeating. He emphasizes the importance of mitochondrial function for overall health, suggesting creatine and a diverse diet as key components. They also discuss the controversial use of seed oils, the benefits of red light therapy, and the potential of supplements like CoQ10 and nattokinase to enhance mitochondrial efficiency and cardiovascular health.

• The myth that turkey consumption leads to sleepiness due to tryptophan content is debunked.
• Tryptophan is not significantly higher in turkey compared to other foods like whey protein.
• Overeating during Thanksgiving is the actual cause of post-meal drowsiness.

"I just want to tell a public health message that you did not get sleepy because the turkey was high in tryptophan."

• This quote introduces the myth regarding turkey and tryptophan, setting the stage for its debunking.

"Apparently, it came from journalists in the 80s who were trying to come up with a reason to explain why everyone was tired after Thanksgiving meal."

• Explains the origin of the myth, attributing it to journalists rather than scientific research.

• The parasympathetic nervous system, or "rest and digest" system, explains why animals, including humans, feel sleepy after a large meal.
• Overeating activates this system, leading to a natural state of rest similar to animals in the wild after feeding.

"Our parasympathetic nervous system is the rest and digest system."

• Highlights the biological mechanism responsible for post-meal drowsiness.

"You see this in physiology, they call the parasympathetic nervous system the rest and digest system."

• Reinforces the idea that the body's natural response to a large meal is to rest.

• Mitochondria are crucial for energy production, maintenance, and repair in the body.
• Sleep allows mitochondria to rest and replenish energy reserves, which is vital for overall health.
• Sleep deprivation studies show that creatine supplementation can mitigate cognitive deficits and tiredness.

"We really want to be thinking about mitochondrial function at the root of all health and disease."

• Emphasizes the centrality of mitochondrial health to overall well-being.

"Creatine is somehow acutely preventing your brain from suffering during sleep deprivation."

• Illustrates how creatine can support mitochondrial function and cognitive performance during sleep loss.

• Creatine is essential for energy distribution in almost all cells, not just muscles.
• It plays a significant role in cognitive function and healing, such as in traumatic brain injuries.
• The presence of creatine in various tissues suggests its broader health benefits beyond muscle enhancement.

"I called it more than a performance enhancer because there's... almost every cell and every tissue has the creatine system."

• Explains the widespread role of creatine in the body, beyond muscle health.

"Creatine is like the power grid and it distributes that energy throughout the cell."

• Describes creatine's function in energy distribution at the cellular level.

• Red light therapy can enhance mitochondrial function, potentially improving vision and halting macular degeneration.
• Supplements like lutein and zeaxanthin are known to support eye health by accumulating in the macula.
• Red light therapy has systemic effects that can improve vision even without direct application to the eyes.

"Red light is doing something systemically that does not have to go to your eye that does improve your vision."

• Suggests that red light therapy benefits vision through systemic mitochondrial enhancement.

"Lutein and zeaxanthin are well known to accumulate in the macula where they have a very specific role in protecting against macular degeneration."

• Highlights the role of specific nutrients in supporting eye health.

• Sunlight exposure is crucial for vitamin D synthesis and offers other health benefits beyond supplementation.
• Morning sunlight helps regulate mitochondrial function and energy metabolism.
• Tanning beds can be a substitute for sunlight in areas with limited sun exposure, but should be used cautiously.

"You need sunlight... you at least need to get 30 minutes of sunshine in the morning."

• Emphasizes the necessity of sunlight for health benefits beyond vitamin D.

"I would use a tanning bed not to get tan, but I'd use like 2-3 minutes at a time."

• Advises cautious use of tanning beds for health benefits without excessive skin damage.

• Methylene blue can be beneficial for mitochondrial function in individuals with specific mitochondrial dysfunctions.
• It acts as a non-specific rewirer of mitochondrial energy pathways, which can be helpful or harmful depending on individual needs.
• Proper mitochondrial testing is essential to determine suitability for methylene blue supplementation.

"Methylene blue is something that could do wonders for your mitochondria if you need it and could really hurt you if you don't."

• Warns about the potential risks and benefits of methylene blue based on individual mitochondrial health.

"If there's a blockage to get around, methylene blue helps."

• Explains how methylene blue can assist in energy production when there are mitochondrial blockages.

• Mitochondrial dysfunction is closely linked to the aging process, with energy production declining with age.
• Maintaining mitochondrial function is key to slowing down the aging process and preserving health.
• Lifestyle factors can significantly influence mitochondrial health and aging, with 75% of mitochondrial function variability being controllable.

"I would argue that mitochondrial dysfunction and aging are the same thing."

• Suggests that maintaining healthy mitochondria is crucial to slowing aging.

"Age only explains 25% of mitochondrial function."

• Highlights the significant role of lifestyle choices in maintaining mitochondrial health.

• Creatine supplementation, sunlight exposure, balanced nutrition, and exercise are crucial for mitochondrial health.
• Diversifying protein sources and consuming a range of nutrients supports optimal mitochondrial function.
• Exercise is vital for signaling the production of mitochondria and maintaining energy metabolism.

"Creatine is really important because it's not in the mitochondria so much as it carries forth the mitochondrial energy."

• Stresses the importance of creatine in supporting mitochondrial function.

"Sunlight going into your eyes, being translated into your brain is the signal that actually tells your brain to organize that."

• Describes how sunlight exposure influences mitochondrial activity and energy metabolism.

• Endurance exercises outperform others for increasing mitochondrial function in skeletal muscles.
• Strength training engages the liver's mitochondria due to glycogen burning and lactate production.
• A holistic approach to exercise should include endurance, strength, mobility, agility, balance, and proprioception.
• Cognitive exercises for the brain are crucial for long-term memory and creative synthesis.

"A lot of people are too reductionist when they look at what type of exercise should you do for your mitochondria."

• This quote highlights the narrow perspective some have regarding exercise's impact on mitochondrial health, emphasizing the need for a broader approach.

"If you're doing sprinting, your muscle's burning through tons of carbohydrates. It's making a lot of lactate."

• This explains how different exercises affect muscle and liver mitochondrial activity, showing the complexity of energy systems in the body.

• Gymnasts and pole vaulters have a longer lifespan compared to the general population and other athletes.
• Observational studies suggest that functionality of movement and diverse physical skills may contribute to longevity.
• Cardiorespiratory fitness is crucial but not the sole determinant of longevity.
• Stretching and functional mechanical activities may enhance immune function and reduce cancer risk.

"Gymnasts and pole vaulters have eight years on the general population."

• The quote illustrates the surprising longevity of certain athletes, prompting a reevaluation of what contributes to a longer life.

"I think that functionality of movement throughout the whole body to facilitate the kind of skills that they have is training at things that are getting left out."

• This suggests that the diverse physical skills required in gymnastics and pole vaulting may contribute to better overall health and longevity.

• Injury prevention should be a primary focus for long-term health and athletic performance.
• Mitochondrial function declines with age and is further impacted by injuries, which divert energy resources for healing.
• Full recovery from injuries is crucial to prevent long-term energy deficits and maintain overall health.

"Injury prevention has to be your number one consideration not your number two."

• Emphasizes the importance of prioritizing injury prevention to maintain health and performance over time.

"When I was injured, my mitochondria were completely obsessed with healing from that injury."

• Illustrates the energy diversion caused by injuries, affecting mitochondrial function and overall health.

• Engaging in skill-based activities enhances neurological health and cognitive function.
• Activities that require coordination, strategy, and reaction time can stave off age-related cognitive decline.
• Mixing familiar exercises with new challenges can maintain and improve physical and cognitive skills.

"Wouldn't it just make sense that a skill versus just a workout...is actively making your mind fire and work?"

• Highlights the cognitive benefits of skill-based exercises, suggesting they can help maintain mental acuity.

"I think you should do a mix like you always want to be pushing yourself to a new um to new achievements."

• Encourages a balance of maintaining existing skills while pursuing new physical and cognitive challenges.

• A food-first approach is recommended, with supplements used strategically to fill nutritional gaps.
• CoQ10 is beneficial for heart health, but its supplementation should be individualized based on needs.
• Creatine is suggested for brain health, particularly in recovery from traumatic brain injuries.

"I do strongly believe in a food first, pharma last approach."

• Advocates for prioritizing nutrition from whole foods over supplements or pharmaceuticals.

"CoQ10 is actually made in the body and it is found in food."

• Explains the natural occurrence of CoQ10, supporting the idea of obtaining nutrients from dietary sources when possible.

• Health is not merely the absence of disease but involves having abundant energy to meet goals and adaptability to changes.
• A high energy-to-anxiety ratio and strong libido are indicators of good health.
• Energy distribution within the body is crucial for maintaining health.

"A really good definition of health for me is you should be abundantly supplied with all the energy that you need to fulfill the goals that you're trying to fulfill."

• Health involves having sufficient energy to meet personal goals.

"Healthy is you have abundant energy to put towards productive things."

• Health is characterized by having energy directed towards productivity rather than anxiety.

• Declining mitochondrial function may not always manifest as tiredness but as misdirected energy leading to anxiety.
• Energy management is crucial in determining productivity and health.

"If the answer is, well, I felt wired all day, but I wasted most of it thinking about why my wife insulted me and then worrying about how I was going to pay the bills and so I didn't actually get any work done."

• Misdirected energy leads to decreased productivity and increased anxiety.

• CoQ10 can significantly impact energy levels and mitochondrial function.
• Individual responses to CoQ10 can vary greatly, with some experiencing significant health improvements.

"She had gone to functional medicine practitioners, did homeopathy, all kinds of, you know, just she just went to whatever she could find and nothing ever changed that."

• CoQ10 supplementation led to significant health improvements where other treatments failed.

• Mega dosing supplements without understanding the underlying biochemistry can lead to imbalances and adverse effects.
• Testing for nutrient needs can help avoid negative outcomes from supplementation.

"If you don't understand the biochemical pathway of the thing you're mega dosing, you are not a candidate."

• Understanding biochemical pathways is crucial before mega dosing supplements.

"A lot of people test their glucose. Not a lot of people test their lactate, but I'm 100% confident that that woman had she had the practitioner said, 'Try the thamin and see what it does to your lactate.'"

• Testing lactate can provide real-time indicators of mitochondrial dysfunction.

• A food-first approach to nutrition provides a diversified nutrient profile and prevents imbalances.
• Even experts prefer a food-first approach due to incomplete knowledge of all bodily processes.

"Food is a diversified portfolio. And if you don't have the expertise to run around taking different things that you don't understand, you really should diversify."

• Food provides a balanced nutrient profile, acting as a safeguard against ignorance.

• CoQ10 and methylene blue have different roles and are not interchangeable in mitochondrial pathways.
• CoQ10 is integral to the electron transport chain, while methylene blue provides alternative pathways when blockages occur.

"CoQ10 is about two-thirds through that pathway... Methylene blue is... like those fake taxis at the airport."

• CoQ10 is part of the main energy transport pathway, while methylene blue acts as a detour.

• Seed oils make tissues more vulnerable to damage and are linked to long-term health issues.
• Short-term studies often fail to capture the long-term negative effects of seed oils.

"Seed oils make your tissues more vulnerable to damage and they don't damage your tissues."

• Seed oils increase vulnerability to damage rather than causing immediate harm.

"The LA Veterans Administration hospital study showed... the cancer was the same for the first two years. But then at the 2 to 5 year mark, it started diverging."

• Long-term studies demonstrate the delayed negative health impacts of seed oils.

• Short-term studies and contrarian views often misrepresent the long-term effects of seed oils.
• Influencer culture and the need for attention can drive misinformation.

"For whatever reason there's some people who just don't want to look at the older trials that were very long and they're spending all their time looking at these very short-term trials."

• Short-term studies are often used to justify contrarian positions despite long-term evidence.

"Part of it is justifying the contrarian position with these short-term trials because then you could dunk on people and get attention."

• Contrarian positions are often used to gain attention in influencer culture.

• Historical dietary guidelines have shifted, sometimes based on flawed studies and financial incentives.
• Saturated fats were demonized based on studies influenced by the sugar industry.

"Time magazine had a picture of a frowning face made out of eggs and bacon... 'Hold the eggs in butter. Cholesterol has been proved deadly and our diets will never be the same.'"

• The demonization of saturated fats was based on flawed studies and media influence.

"People started eating margarine and eating seed oil and not eating butter... for $50,000."

• Financial incentives led to widespread dietary changes with long-term health impacts.

• Cholesterol is essential for various bodily functions, including digestion, hormone production, and brain function.
• Elevated cholesterol levels can indicate inefficient cholesterol usage, potentially signaling metabolic issues.
• Cholesterol levels have different implications depending on age and metabolism; high levels in younger individuals may predict future heart disease risk.

"If your cholesterol is turning over and it's being used to make bile acids to support your digestion, it's being used to make adrenal hormones and sex hormones, it's being used to make testosterone, it's being used to make brain synapses to support your memory, like all those things that cholesterol does are incredibly important."

• Cholesterol is vital for numerous bodily functions, but its effective utilization is crucial for health.

• Seed oils can contribute to atherosclerosis through the oxidation of fats, leading to immune responses that form plaques.
• Historical studies, like the Minnesota Coronary Survey, have shown increased atherosclerosis with seed oil consumption.
• Lowering cholesterol with seed oils may not reduce heart disease risk due to the damage caused by oxidized fats.

"The fats you get from seed oils that are on the outside of it get damaged. And when they get damaged, the immune system recognizes it as a toxin that could hurt the blood vessel."

• Seed oils can lead to the formation of atherosclerotic plaques due to the immune system's response to oxidized fats.

• Mitochondrial energy production is crucial for signaling a state of abundance, affecting cholesterol metabolism.
• Efficient mitochondrial function supports the clearance of cholesterol and overall metabolic health.
• Interventions should focus on enhancing mitochondrial function before resorting to pharmaceuticals.

"The clearance of cholesterol from your blood is driven by the mitochondrial energy production that gives your brain the signal that you are in a state of abundance and should put that cholesterol toward good things."

• Mitochondrial efficiency is key in managing cholesterol levels and overall metabolic health.

• Proper thyroid function is essential for metabolism and can be influenced by diet, particularly iodine and protein intake.
• Iodine deficiency, exacerbated by low-salt diets and environmental factors, can impair thyroid function.
• Supplementation should be considered when dietary sources are insufficient, but food sources are preferred.

"Thyroid hormone is made from the amino acid tyrosine which you get from the protein in the food that you eat and then you add iodine to it. So if you don't have enough protein, you're not going to have good thyroid function."

• Adequate intake of iodine and protein is crucial for maintaining healthy thyroid function.

• Statins lower cholesterol but can negatively impact mitochondrial function by inhibiting CoQ10 synthesis.
• The use of statins should be carefully considered, with a focus on optimizing mitochondrial health first.
• Pharmaceutical interventions should be built on a foundation of good nutrition and mitochondrial function.

"Statins will decrease your mitochondrial function. So I think by not thinking about mitochondria first, it's like instead you take these people with mediocre mitochondrial function."

• Statins can impair mitochondrial function, highlighting the importance of prioritizing mitochondrial health.

• Nattokinase is an enzyme that can help break down blood clots, potentially reducing the risk of heart attacks and strokes.
• It is derived from natto, a fermented soybean product high in vitamin K2, which helps prevent calcium deposits.
• Nattokinase may benefit individuals with a predisposition to clotting or severe atherosclerosis.

"Nattokinase is an enzyme that helps break down blood clots. And atherosclerosis is what it really is is the immune system quarantining damaged particles."

• Nattokinase could be beneficial in managing cardiovascular risks associated with blood clot formation.