Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
- Episode 10 of the Archaeological Fantasies Podcast.
- Hosts: Sarah and Ken Fader.
- Guest: Jeb Carr, an authority on political and religious contexts of modern pseudo-archeology and pseudo-history.
"We expand to reach a variety of topics throughout this two-part special."
- Overview of the broad range of topics to be covered in the series.
Jeb Carr's Background and Research
- Jeb Carr is a visiting assistant professor of anthropology at Miami University in Ohio.
- Primary research: The first permanent Spanish Colonial settlement in El Salvador.
- Focus on ceramics, hybridity, and colonial contexts.
- Involvement in anthropology of the paranormal and pseudo-archaeological ideas.
"It's the first permanent Spanish Colonial settlement in El Salvador though most people who live there were not Spanish."
- Describes the unique cultural blend in early colonial settlements.
"I edited a volume on hybridity and Archeology as a postdoctoral scholar at Southern Illinois University Carbondale."
- Highlights Jeb's expertise in hybridity within archeological contexts.
Hybridity in Archeology
- Hybridity involves blending different cultural traditions.
- Example: Kelowna wear, which includes African, European, and Native American technical traditions.
"They're often very interesting mixes that come out and then they become the new norm."
- Discusses how cultural blends become normalized over time.
Pseudo-Archeology and Conspiracy Theories
- Pseudo-archeology often forms the foundation for pseudo ideas about human history and contemporary society.
- The rise of dark undercurrents like racism, anti-Semitism, and conspiracy theories in pseudo-archeology.
"Pseudo-archeology has come to end up being the foundation for pseudo ideas about the history of humanity and how humanity is today."
- Explains how pseudo-archeology influences broader pseudo-historical beliefs.
The Evolution of Pseudo-Archeology
- Shift from viewing pseudo-archeology as silly hypotheses to recognizing its darker implications.
- The role of theosophy and Victorian pseudoscience in shaping modern pseudo-archeology.
"The melding of all of this, I think really starts to explode in the last 30, 35 years almost 40 years now but it takes its cues from decades earlier."
- Describes the timeline and evolution of pseudo-archeological ideas.
Specific Examples of Pseudo-Archeology
- The protocols of the Elders of Zion and reptilian conspiracies.
- Influence of the History Channel in popularizing Ancient Aliens.
"The idea that the people that run Society either are or work for evil Subterranean or extraterrestrial or Ultra dimensional shape-shifting demonic reptilian creatures."
- Highlights the bizarre and extreme nature of some pseudo-archeological beliefs.
Cultural Impact and Popularity
- Pseudo-archeology's impact on the UFO community and its current dominance.
- Cultural fascination with ideas like shape-shifting reptilians, originating from fictional works like those by H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard.
"If you go and you Google the term ubaid, you will see a whole bunch of sites that talk about how these are actually images of the evil reptilians that once ran Human Society."
- Illustrates how historical artifacts are reinterpreted through a pseudo-archeological lens.
Conclusion and Future Topics
- Future discussions to include more on the intersection of pseudo-archeology with popular culture and conspiracy theories.
- Mention of upcoming guests and topics, such as Jason Colavito discussing H.P. Lovecraft's influence.
"We can trace it from pop Pulp Fiction and all of that, we can trace how it entered into like pseudo history and UFO streams."
- Indicates the planned exploration of the historical roots and cultural impact of pseudo-archeology.
These notes cover the detailed and nuanced discussion in the podcast, providing a comprehensive overview of every key idea and topic discussed.
Mainstreaming of Pseudo-Archeology
- Pseudo-archaeology has blended with creationism and biblical literalism since the 1970s.
- The perception of pseudo-archaeology has shifted from being seen as silly to being recognized as potentially dangerous.
- The blending of pseudo-archaeology with other ideas like the satanic panic has contributed to its mainstreaming.
"Pseudo-archaeology, I think what it's really done is it's taken away that sir, I mean, so Ken, you kind of said that these were sort of silly ideas earlier and kind of a little fun in a sense."
- Pseudo-archaeology was initially seen as harmless and even potentially useful for engaging interest in real archaeology.
"We can use this if this is a hook to get people interested in archaeology, we'll show them real archaeology and we will disabuse them of all that silliness."
- The perception has shifted due to the blending with other dangerous ideas and the realization of its potential harm.
Authority and Professionalization of Science
- The evolution of science from natural philosophy to a professionalized field has influenced public perception.
- Doubts about science emerged due to its association with negative outcomes like nuclear war and environmental degradation.
- Historical scientific frauds and unethical practices have also damaged the credibility of science.
"Science emerges, it explodes, it transforms the world in the 19th century in good and bad ways."
- The professionalization of science and the emergence of doubts about its role in society have influenced the acceptance of pseudo-archaeology.
"You start to have doubts about science. You have people that look at science in the industry that it created as like, this is what's giving us nuclear war."
- Scientific frauds and unethical practices have contributed to skepticism about science.
"On top of the very, very questionable, like irradiating milk and feeding it to school children kind of experiments, I just know that there were some just in general bad science."
Pseudo-Archaeology and Victorian Methods
- Pseudo-archaeologists often romanticize and emulate Victorian-era methods and figures.
- Victorian methods were less professionalized, making it harder to distinguish good from bad science.
- Pseudo-archaeologists often dress like historical figures and use outdated methods.
"All these pseudo-archaeologists, they dress up like Indiana Jones or they dress up like steampunk explorers and they talk about methods that are almost identical to what Heinrich Schlieman was using 100 years ago."
- The romanticization of Victorian methods contributes to the appeal and perceived legitimacy of pseudo-archaeology.
- Shows like "Ancient Aliens" and "Unearthed America" both reflect and amplify societal demand for pseudo-archaeological content.
- Media plays a significant role in legitimizing and popularizing these ideas.
"I think that they're answering a need that's been growing, not a need, a demand that's been growing, but when they do, they then legitimize it."
- The media's role in promoting pseudo-archaeology creates a feedback loop that increases its visibility and perceived legitimacy.
Evolution of UFO and Alien Theories
- UFO and alien theories have evolved from the concept of ancient astronauts to more abstract ideas of aliens.
- The distinction between ancient astronauts and aliens reflects changes in how these ideas are conceptualized.
"The difference is that nobody talks much about astronauts anymore."
- The shift from ancient astronauts to aliens indicates a move towards more abstract and less scientifically grounded ideas.
Demonic Interpretations of Pseudo-Archaeology
- Increasingly, pseudo-archaeological ideas are being interpreted through a demonic lens, particularly from a biblical perspective.
- The concept of Nephilim and fallen angels is used to explain archaeological findings.
"The answer increasingly is that it's demonic. That is the answer you increasingly see."
- The demonic interpretation reflects a return to more religious and less scientific explanations for pseudo-archaeological phenomena.
"This whole from a Biblical perspective that there's also of course it gets into sort of pseudo-Sumerian stuff with Zechariah Sitchin and his followers."
- The blending of biblical and pseudo-Sumerian ideas creates a complex narrative that appeals to certain audiences.
Complexity of Science and Public Perception
- The increasing complexity of science makes it harder for the public to understand and trust scientific explanations.
- Simplified and sensationalized pseudo-archaeological narratives are more accessible and appealing.
"Science has become increasingly complicated."
- The complexity of scientific explanations contrasts with the simplicity and appeal of pseudo-archaeological narratives, contributing to their popularity.
Simplifying Complex Concepts for Public Understanding
- The discussion emphasizes the necessity of breaking down complex academic and scientific concepts into terms that the general public can understand.
- There is a critique of the academic community for failing to communicate effectively with the public, leading to misunderstandings and the spread of pseudo-scientific ideas.
"If you can't break it down into terms the average person can understand, I think you're doing it wrong. You're communicating it wrong."
- Effective communication is crucial to bridge the gap between complex academic concepts and public understanding.
"I want people to read my blog, get information, and be able to turn that information around and give it to somebody else and not lose any of the facts in between."
- The goal is to make information accessible and easily transmittable without losing its essence.
Emergence of Pseudo-Archaeologists
- The rise of pseudo-archaeologists is linked to the professionalization of archaeology, which started to focus more on internal dialogues rather than public communication.
- Figures like Eric Von Daniken became influential by providing simpler, though less accurate, explanations that resonated with the public.
"When archaeology is professionalizing... it's talking to itself more than the public... Eric Von Daniken shows up."
- The lack of public engagement by professional archaeologists created a vacuum filled by pseudo-archaeologists.
"If somebody had taken the time to explain things to him, maybe we wouldn't have to deal with Chariots of the Gods."
- Proper communication and public engagement could potentially mitigate the influence of pseudo-archaeologists.
Accessibility of Academic Writing
- Academic writing, especially in fields like archaeology, is often dense and inaccessible to the general public.
- The discussion contrasts the dense prose of academic figures like Binford with more accessible writers.
"There are maybe three people in the world who would rather read Binford than Eric Von Daniken."
- The inaccessibility of academic writing limits its reach and impact on the general public.
"That's where Deeds came in... he was trying very hard to make it accessible."
- Efforts to make academic writing more accessible are appreciated and necessary for broader public engagement.
Addressing Public Interests
- Archaeologists need to address the interests and questions of the public, even if they seem trivial or misguided.
- Ignoring public curiosity about topics like ancient aliens only perpetuates misinformation.
"Look at what your public wants... until you get them back in your camp, play the hand you've been dealt."
- Engaging with public interests is crucial for correcting misconceptions and bringing people back to credible sources of information.
"The most dangerous thing we do... is somebody like a Von Daniken is like, 'Look at this spaceship on the sarcophagus of Pacal II'... and we go, 'Oh, that's not true... now let me tell you about their irrigation.'"
- Addressing the actual questions posed by the public is more effective than diverting to unrelated topics.
- Media representations, such as the "Ancient Aliens" series, shape public perceptions and often perpetuate myths and misconceptions.
- These representations are often more entertaining than accurate, leading to widespread acceptance of pseudo-scientific ideas.
"I cannot in any way take the Ancient Aliens series seriously... it just makes me giggle the whole time."
- The entertainment value of such media often overshadows its lack of scientific credibility.
"There's a reason that they didn't make Indiana Jones and the raised field system."
- Popular media tends to focus on sensational aspects rather than scientifically significant but less exciting topics.
Conspiracy Theories and Demonic Interpretations
- The discussion touches on various conspiracy theories, including the idea that the Iraq invasion was to capture ancient Stargate technology.
- There is also a mention of the interpretation of alien encounters as demonic experiences, which is a common theme in some circles.
"One of the conspiracy theories you'll find about why the Coalition invaded Iraq in 2003 was to get its hands on ancient Stargate technology."
- Conspiracy theories often blend historical and mythical elements to create compelling but false narratives.
"He realized though that this was actually demonic... this is a very common idea... go Google things like shadow people."
- The interpretation of alien encounters as demonic experiences reflects a blending of modern myths with traditional religious beliefs.
Personal Experiences and Public Engagement
- Personal experiences, such as attending UFO festivals, provide insights into how these myths and conspiracy theories are perpetuated and believed.
- Engaging with these communities can offer a better understanding of their beliefs and how to address them.
"I went to the UFO Festival in Roswell, New Mexico in 2002... I was writing a paper on the evolution of crash saucer legends."
- First-hand experiences at events like UFO festivals reveal the depth of belief in these myths and the commercial aspect of such beliefs.
"The UFO Museum decided to rescind the invitation... which that's kind of an achievement if the UFO Museum thinks you're a little too weird."
- The presence of extreme beliefs even within fringe communities highlights the challenge of addressing and correcting misinformation.
Raelian Missionary and End Times Conspiracy
- Discusses an ethnographic moment involving a Raelian missionary and a church built on the idea that aliens are a mask for demonic conspiracies.
- Explores common conspiracy theories about the second coming of Christ being faked using holographic technology or alien invasions orchestrated by a satanic New World Order.
- Links these ideas to ancient myths involving reptilian gods and the Watchers, who are considered fallen angels tempting humanity.
"This demonic conspiracy that gets tied into end times conspiracy, the coming prophecies of Armageddon, the Book of Revelation, etc."
- Highlights the connection between modern conspiracy theories and biblical end-time prophecies.
"In the final days, they're going to come back as part of Satan's host, and you know, lose you know spoiler but, that's Book of Revelations End Time stuff."
- Emphasizes the belief that modern deceptions involving UFOs and aliens are part of a larger satanic scheme.
Shift in Alien Narratives from the 50s and 60s to Today
- Describes how the perception of aliens has shifted from being benign or even god-like protectors to being part of darker conspiracy theories.
- Introduces the disclosure movement or exopolitics movement, which argues that some aliens want to help humanity but are being suppressed by an evil world government.
"Growing up as a kid in the 50s and 60s where the aliens were going to prevent us from destroying ourselves in a nuclear holocaust."
- Reflects on the optimistic view of aliens during the mid-20th century.
"There's this thing called the disclosure movement or the exopolitics movement that is trying to be this political activist thing."
- Explains the modern activist movements within the UFO community.
UFO Dark Side and Pseudo-Archaeology
- Discusses the shift in UFO narratives during the 1980s, involving abductions and hybridization experiments, which started to sound demonic.
- Links these ideas to the satanic panic of the 1970s and populist anti-elite sentiments.
- Mentions the influence of Pulp Fiction and early Flying Saucer culture on these narratives.
"You start to have alongside other forms of literalism kind of nuts and bolts UFO literalism like the Majestic conspiracy, the Roswell stuff."
- Highlights the emergence of more literal and darker UFO theories in the 1980s.
"They were basically replicating the Pulp Fiction of like the Richard Shaver story that invents the UFO or the reptilians that were added to UFO culture."
- Points out the literary origins of some modern UFO and reptilian conspiracy theories.
Internet's Role in Disseminating Conspiracy Theories
- Explores how the internet has changed the rules of the game, allowing conspiracy theories to reach massive audiences.
- Discusses the phenomenon of conspiracy theories blending together, creating complex and interconnected narratives.
"The internet has, I think, changed all of the rules of the game to allow this stuff to be disseminated."
- Emphasizes the role of the internet in spreading conspiracy theories.
"You don't get hundreds of hits or even thousands of hits but tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands or millions of hits."
- Highlights the massive reach of conspiracy theory content online.
Cryptozoology and Creationism
- Discusses how cryptozoology is often motivated by a desire to disprove Darwinism and promote creationist views.
- Mentions specific examples like the search for Bigfoot and supposed dinosaurs in Africa and Indonesia.
"A significant chunk of cryptozoologists are doing it specifically to try to overturn evolution."
- Explains the creationist motivation behind some cryptozoology efforts.
"Their motivation is to disprove Darwinism either generally or to hook it into pseudo-archaeological conspiracy theories."
- Links cryptozoology to broader pseudo-archaeological and anti-evolutionary narratives.
Spiritual Warfare and Prayer Walks
- Introduces the concept of spiritual warfare and prayer walks, where people pray to evict demons from specific locations.
- Discusses the overlap between ghost hunting and literalist demonology.
"Prayer walks would do that, and you know, the example given in the podcast, they're like in front of a mosque or a supposed indigenous site or a Freemasonry hall or a gay bar."
- Illustrates the controversial and potentially harmful targets of prayer walks.
"It was two authors writing, they're talking about the books that they're putting out on this, and they're like we don't know where the line is."
- Highlights the blurred lines between ghost hunting and literalist demonology.