Episode 4: Coaching as a Leadership Practice

In this episode of Rethinking Leadership GC, Robert Armstrong speaks with France Hutcheson about the transformative power of coaching in the public service of Canada. France, an expert in coaching with a storied career at the Canada School of Public Service, discusses the nuances between coaching and mentoring and emphasizes that coaching is not about fixing leaders but fostering growth and self-awareness. They explore the benefits of systemic coaching, which integrates coaching principles into organizational practices to enhance team performance and engagement. France highlights the importance of creating a culture of authentic communication and continuous learning to drive organizational success.

• Coaching is not about fixing leaders but helping them build skills and get unstuck.
• Coaching programs are designed to be fast-paced and skill-focused.

"We're not fixing anyone. We're just helping them through a fast-paced coaching program to build the skills or help them get unstuck in certain areas."

• Coaching is about skill development and overcoming obstacles, not about repairing deficiencies.

• France Hutcheson is a free agent at the Treasury Board Secretariat, focusing on bringing coaching into organizations.
• Her career includes significant work at the Canada School of Public Service on leadership and coaching.

"I am a free agent at Treasury Board Secretariat...focusing mainly on teams and systemic coaching."

• France's role involves integrating coaching into organizational structures, particularly focusing on teams and systemic approaches.

• France's initial interest in coaching stemmed from a leadership program (MTP) 24 years ago.
• The MTP program emphasized self-awareness and intra-leadership.

"When I entered government, my goal was to become an ex really, really quickly...I joined a leadership program called MTP."

• The MTP program helped France learn about herself as a leader and sparked her passion for coaching.

• Coaching questions differ from mentoring questions by focusing on inner thoughts and unstated fears.
• These questions help individuals explore and express hidden aspects that may be holding them back.

"The coach really was asking me questions about, you know, the inner aspect of what I was thinking inside that I was not...I had the space to explore these things and say the real things."

• Coaching questions facilitate deeper self-exploration and personal growth, often leading to significant insights and progress.

• Mentoring involves seeking advice from someone with relevant experience, often focusing on their journey and advice.
• Coaching uses powerful questions to help individuals find their own path without relying on the coach's experience.

"A mentor is someone that actually you're seeking help from or advice from because they've been through the journey...The coach doesn't have to be the expert or doesn't have to have the journey experience that you're seeking."

• Mentors provide guidance based on their experiences, while coaches help individuals uncover their own solutions through questioning.

• It is possible to have both mentors and coaches simultaneously, as they serve different purposes.
• Some individuals may act as both mentors and coaches, shifting between roles as needed.

"You can have as many mentors and as many coaches as you want...there are coaches who are wearing both hats."

• The combination of mentoring and coaching can provide a comprehensive support system, addressing different aspects of personal and professional development.

• Coaching focuses on future goals and desired outcomes, while counseling often delves into past experiences and emotions.
• The goal of coaching is to move from point A to point B, emphasizing forward progress.

"The focus of the coach is to get you from A to B, the future situation, the desired outcome, the objective that you're trying to achieve or to gain."

• Coaching aims to help individuals define and achieve future goals, distinguishing it from the more retrospective nature of counseling.

• A common topic in coaching is helping individuals define their goals, especially if they are unsure of their aspirations.
• The initial coaching conversation often revolves around goal setting and identifying motivations.

"That would be the first topic of conversation, setting a goal. I don't have a goal. I don't know where I'm going."

• Coaching begins with clarifying goals and aspirations, providing a foundation for subsequent coaching sessions.

• Coaching is experiencing a resurgence in the workplace, with increased attention and resources dedicated to it.
• The Coaching Summit and similar initiatives aim to expand coaching access to all levels of employees, not just executives.

"Coaching is often understood as individual coaching, like one on one...what we've tried to do is expand the audience."

• Efforts are being made to democratize coaching, making it available to a broader audience within organizations.

• Individual coaching: One-on-one sessions, often with external coaches to ensure confidentiality and trust.
• Peer coaching: Coaching circles where peers learn and apply coaching methodologies with each other.
• Group coaching: Coaching conversations in a group setting, often facilitated by trained leaders.

"We're seeing more and more now coaching offered through peers...group coaching is being more and more popular."

• Different types of coaching cater to various needs and contexts within the workplace, enhancing overall leadership and team development.

• Coaching skills are increasingly recognized as essential leadership competencies.
• Leaders at all levels are encouraged to learn and apply coaching principles to their interactions with team members.

"We're seeing more and more now coaching offered through peers...group coaching is being more and more popular."

• Developing coaching skills can enhance leaders' ability to support and develop their teams, fostering a more collaborative and growth-oriented work environment.

• Historically, coaching has been seen as an executive service due to the unique challenges and responsibilities at that level.
• Executives often require support in managing people, different styles, and high-performance expectations.

"It's probably because it's a cultural thing...learning to manage different styles, different personalities and performing."

• Coaching provides executives with the necessary support to navigate complex leadership challenges and enhance their effectiveness.

• A common misconception is that coaching is meant to fix leaders. Instead, it helps them develop skills and overcome obstacles.
• Coaching is about facilitating growth and progress, not about correcting deficiencies.

"One of maybe the misconception, though, is that coaching can fix the leader in those areas. We're not fixing anyone."

• Understanding the true purpose of coaching can help organizations and individuals better utilize coaching services for development and growth.

• Internal coaches are becoming more common in organizations, helping leaders grow through one-on-one coaching conversations.
• Senior management often requests coaching for employees with specific problems, but the true client is the participant needing coaching.
• The initial coaching conversation is crucial to educate the participant about what coaching is and to get their buy-in.

"My client is never the senior management asking me to fix the person, my client or the participants that I'm working with and for is the coaching."

• The coach's primary focus is the participant, not the initial request from senior management.
• Building rapport and trust with the participant is essential for effective coaching.

• Coaching is about personal and professional growth, not just fixing problems.
• Participants must want to engage in coaching for it to be effective.
• Honest conversations help participants identify their own goals and areas for improvement.

"The simple solution for that is to have this honest conversation with the person. So bring them in the space of what do they want? What do they observe?"

• Setting objectives should come from the participant, not from the coach or senior management.

• Time is a common barrier; people often prioritize meetings and tasks over coaching sessions.
• Coaching is an investment that can lead to faster progress in the long run.
• Coaching sessions teach new models and ways of having conversations, which can be applied in the participant's own teams.

"The time spent with a coach is an investment, and it's basically also time where you will learn new models, learn new ways of having conversation."

• Coaching helps participants model behaviors and competencies that senior management desires.

• Peer coaching circles are gaining popularity, even without formal certification.
• Experiencing a coaching conversation helps people understand its impact.
• Introductory courses can teach the basics of coaching, including different levels of listening and questioning.

"There are many courses that, you know, introductory courses to coaching, where you will live a coaching conversation in that training, specific one day or two day training."

• Certification from organizations like the International Coach Federation (ICF) can be helpful but is not mandatory.

• Different types of questions are used in coaching, mentoring, and managing.
• Effective coaching questions prompt reflection and self-awareness.
• Examples of powerful coaching questions include "What do you need in this session with me?" and "What do you want to achieve at the end of this session with me?"

"What do you need in this session with me? Often a lot of employees will come to your office with the same kind of questions, the same kind of challenges, and you will offer them either good questions or good advice, but they will come back the next week with the same level of questioning, the same level of struggle."

• Asking participants what they need in a session encourages vulnerability and moves beyond task-oriented needs.

"What you just described is a need is oriented towards a task. And then when you see a certain repetitive behavior, you observe the behavior and you really understand that the person is stuck."

• Observing repetitive behavior can help a coach identify areas where the participant is stuck and needs deeper exploration.

• Asking what someone needs from a conversation can reveal deeper, often unspoken needs.
• Common responses often relate to tasks, but deeper needs might include trust, confidence, or support.
• Addressing these needs can reduce blame and increase honesty and openness.

"What do you need from me in this conversation? They will say, probably I need advice. I need this. I need always related to the task. But what do you actually need in this session? I need more trust. I need more confidence. I need more help. I need support."

• Asking directly about needs can uncover underlying emotional or relational requirements.

"I need you to trust that I'm doing a good job and perhaps stop having me come for approvals at every juncture."

• Trust can be a significant underlying need, often masked by constant requests for approval.

• Training is essential to build comfort in discussing deeper needs.
• Trustful conversations reduce blame and increase problem-solving.

"A lot more comfort in having those conversations. Because if there are more trust, if there are more trustful in conversation, employees will, you know, they will not lie as much, they will not hide the problems that they have as much."

• Open conversations about needs can lead to better understanding and less blame.

"If you're hearing blame, it means there's probably a need not met or a need to redefine what needs to be done here."

• Addressing needs directly can help employees express themselves better and reduce organizational blame.

• Often, the real need in a conversation is relational rather than material.
• Creating space for these conversations is crucial, especially in shifting work environments.

"It's not that I need you to sign off on this, it's a relational need underneath all of that."

• Relational needs will become more relevant with changes in work environments, such as returning to the office.

"A lot of anxiety, a lot of complexity will arise. It's a shifting situation. We're pivoting now to another reality."

• Leaders need to create spaces for these conversations without necessarily agreeing with every expressed need.

"It does not mean that you have to agree as well with the person. When and when you ask this question, the answer, you don't have to agree with it, but at least let the person explore that space so you can have mutual understanding."

• Sometimes needs can't be met by a manager or coach alone; it requires an organizational approach.
• Coaching conversations belong to the coachee and help them understand their own needs.

"It's more an organizational conversation that needs to follow."

• Coaching helps individuals in large organizations understand and articulate their needs amidst busy schedules.

"Maybe those coaching conversations are a good way to get at that."

• Coaching conversations can address leadership problems such as engagement, motivation, and strategic thinking.

"These conversations and these questions will help people build that new muscle or that strength, being more strategic, more aware, more trustful, more confident, more engaged, more motivated."

• Leaders need to create space for coaching and systemic coaching to foster team growth.

"What's the best way or what might be a better way to go about liberating space to allow my team to get this stuff going?"

• Systemic coaching involves helping people work together within a system.
• Facilitators can help deliver meeting content with a coaching lens to engage employees.

"Systemic coaching. What I like about it is that you help the person, you help people work together, and you help them in the system."

• Changing the way meetings are led can increase engagement and participation.

"This meeting is boring. This is just a top down thing. I'm not even involved. I don't even know what I'm supposed to do there."

• Systemic coaching involves using different types of questions and letting people talk.

"If you want to spin things around, if you want to engage your employees in that conversation, you need to change the way you lead the coach, the conversation."

• Meetings should belong to employees to increase engagement.
• Facilitators can introduce open-ended questions to encourage participation.

"The meeting belongs to the employee. And believe me, there's a space for top down kind of meetings where you need to deliver information and employees will be passive listeners or listeners."

• Specific rules in coaching sessions help create a comfortable space for expression.

"We listen without judgment, we respect others, we let others talk, and we limit the interruption and we allow everybody to speak."

• Facilitators model desired behaviors and help create a comfortable space for expression.

• Creating a comfortable environment for participation takes time and practice.
• Facilitators help teams learn methodologies and integrate coaching into their routines.

"You need support from someone who will help the team grow."

• Regular practice of systemic coaching can replace the need for occasional retreats.

"So you need to find creative ways to integrate coaching in your group, in your team, and help people also be comfortable with the methodology."

• Systemic coaching is sustainable and ongoing, not just a one-time event.
• It involves using tools to help people understand themselves and their teams.

"What I like about the type of coaching, systemic coaching that I am observing and I'm learning and I'm seeing more and more of that approach now in the workplace, is that it helps people, through psychometric tools, learn who they are as well."

• Building on strengths rather than focusing on weaknesses is a key aspect of coaching.

"Start thinking with building the strengths of people, not focusing on the weaknesses."

• Coaching helps identify and complement gaps within a team.
• It shifts the focus from individual growth to organizational benefits.

"Coaching is that one on one conversation. That it is. It's a personal relationship that builds and I become better in myself and I grow."

• Systemic coaching addresses organizational readiness and senior management awareness.

"The level of readiness will depend on the level of awareness of senior management."

• Shifting from individual to systemic coaching addresses broader organizational challenges.

"The reason why I've shifted from individual coaching to systemic coaching is because I was seeing a lot of changes at an individual basis."

• Systemic coaching is increasingly being adopted by organizations to help leaders coach their teams effectively.
• Managers and supervisors are learning coaching methodologies to apply with employees, enhancing their leadership and performance assessment roles.
• Repetitive employee behaviors or recurring problems signal a need for leaders to change their leadership approach.

"So more and more managers, supervisors, executives are learning the methodology so they can apply it with employees. It does not mean that they're not managing them anymore. They still have to wear that hat, and they still have to assess the performance of their team or employees."

• Leaders must recognize when their leadership style is not yielding positive results and be willing to change.

"If they feel there's a certain repetitive behaviors, if they feel that the person comes to your office with the same kind of problem, and that's normally a sign when you see that the way you lead your people is not having the positive impact that you want to have, it means you need to change yourself first, change the way you lead them."

• The coaching model in sports, where teams and individual players have separate coaches, can be applied in organizations.
• Different types of coaches can address various needs within the organization to enhance performance and achieve goals.

"But I'm now thinking that it's true that really high performing teams have coaches that coach the team and that work with the team, but then individual players sometimes have their own individual coaches for those separate needs that aren't necessarily needing to involve the team."

• The presence of multiple coaches within an organization can help make employees "superstars" by addressing specific needs.

"So could we do the same thing in our organization and have coaches of all different kinds involved to make us superstars?"

• Personal anecdotes about turning to coaching for significant life changes, such as training for a triathlon, illustrate the value of coaching.
• Coaches provide technical guidance and emotional support during challenging times.

"When I turned 40, I decided to change a few behaviors that I had, and I turned to triathlon."

• Coaches act as mentors, offering techniques and drills, but also provide support during moments of doubt and difficulty.

"Where the coach comes in the word coach comes in is when you have those moments of doubt, when you need to refocus, when you need to continue, even if it's hard."

• Coaching is fundamentally about growth, both personal and professional.
• Coaches must believe in their clients, but clients also need to believe in themselves.

"The whole conversation about coaching is around growth, but it's a lovely thing that you just said that the coach has to believe in the person. But doesn't that also imply that the person has to believe in themselves?"

• Coaching conversations often revolve around self-trust, fears, transitions, and defining personal goals.

"Some might be trust in ourselves, fears, transition. A lot of conversation I'm seeing happening in the workplace are related to transition."

• Coaching helps achieve clarity in a judgment-free, respectful relationship.
• Coaches challenge clients to follow through on their commitments, fostering accountability.

"The coach will note, the coach will not judge the action of not doing anything. They will seek information on the reasons that you're not maybe aware of it."

• Asking questions about how tasks were not completed provides more honest answers than questioning why they were not done.

"Rather than telling somebody that they didn't do something or asking them why they didn't do it, you can ask them questions about how it is that that didn't come about to take place."

• Key indicators for implementing coaching include employee happiness, retention, and talent utilization.
• Coaching aligns with organizational priorities like diversity, inclusion, and mental health.

"Are my people happy at work? Are my people staying here? How am I using the talent that I have, or do I know the talent that I have in my organization?"

• Coaching can be integrated into various organizational functions without significant additional costs.

"If you're still struggling with these areas and you want to use an innovative approach, an innovative approach that you can integrate in the work, not as an extra piece. Coaching or systemic coaching can be really, really useful."

• Coaching improves performance, communication, engagement, and overall happiness.
• It supports workplace wellness, mental health, productivity, and team dynamics.

"It has been demonstrated through multiple, multiple statistics, reports and everything that coaching helps people with their performance, with their communication, also with their level of engagement and just basically their level of happiness."

• The Government of Canada has a coaching network with over 300 coaches, both internal and external.
• Resources like the GC Collab channel and various courses are available to support coaching initiatives.

"We have a channel on GC collab. It's the Government of Canada coaching network."

• Courses such as "Leading a Peer Coaching Conversation" and "Coaching for Effective Leadership" are offered to develop coaching skills.

"For related Canada School of Public Service content, do visit the website. We have two virtual classroom courses entitled leading a peer coaching conversation, something we just talked about."

• The Thrive series offers a learning journey for leaders at all levels to navigate and thrive in a dynamic environment.

"Thrive offers a learning journey for leaders at all levels and we invite you to explore our virtual classroom courses and job aids to empower you and your teams to better navigate and of course, thrive within a human centered, dynamic, and evolving environment."