In this profound conversation, Jordan Peterson delves into the complexities of identity, the pitfalls of radical subjectivity, and the necessity of embracing responsibility to combat the crisis of meaning faced by the 18-40 demographic. As an educator, Peterson is launching Peterson's Academy in early 2024 to revolutionize access to high-quality education. His platform aims to liberate top lecturers from the constraints of traditional academia, offering them appreciation, autonomy, and fair remuneration. Peterson, despite dealing with persistent pain, describes his life as an almost unbearable adventure filled with opportunities and intellectual stimulation. He credits his ceaseless curiosity and commitment to truth as the foundation of his extraordinary experiences, insisting that a life rich with purpose is within reach for anyone who chooses honesty over deceit.
"Sometimes it can feel like men and women in relationships want entirely different things, like they're struggling to communicate and connect on the same level, about the same set of priorities."
This quote highlights the common issue of misaligned priorities and communication challenges in relationships between men and women.
"And what Jordan's particularly good at is telling anybody who's right now listening to this that is struggling in some way or finds themselves in a situation where they're struggling to get out and climb out of that situation step by step."
This quote emphasizes Jordan's ability to guide individuals through their struggles in a structured, step-by-step manner.
"And the effect that this individual is attributing to me is a consequence of that. Right? I've been successful because I've been a conduit of good ideas, and I have the ability to synthesize a lot of information and to communicate that to people in a way that's understandable."
Jordan explains that his success in helping others is due to his ability to distill and communicate complex ideas in an accessible way.
"It's like putting them at the foot of Mount Everest. But the small commitments we keep to ourself are often really undervalued because they seem so trivial."
This quote suggests that for individuals feeling overwhelmed, the key to progress is to make and keep small commitments, despite them seeming trivial.
"Well, one of the really difficult things to learn when you're down and out is how far you're down, because it's humiliating."
Jordan points out that acknowledging how low one has fallen can be a painful but necessary step in the recovery process.
"I've worked with people. One of the things I've become well known for is my advice to start by cleaning up your room."
Jordan uses the example of cleaning a room to illustrate the importance of starting with simple, achievable tasks.
"So what's cool is that it doesn't really matter how small that first step is because it'll start doubling, and anything that doubles grows unbelievably quickly."
Jordan explains that taking the first step, regardless of its size, is vital as progress tends to accelerate over time.
"What seems to happen when you expose people to small but challenging tasks? It does two things."
Jordan discusses how small challenges can lead to skill development and increased self-efficacy.
"One of the most effective things you can do to help people is to listen."
Jordan emphasizes the importance of listening as a means to truly understand and assist others with their problems.
"The importance of listening can't possibly be overstated. Listen, ask questions until you understand. And by doing that, you also help the other person clarify the situation."
This quote emphasizes the fundamental role of listening in communication, where the listener aids in the clarification process for both parties involved.
"It is so hard to do in relationships, in work. I've sat literally at this table with a colleague of mine about a year ago, and she was telling me she's unhappy in her role. And I remember sitting here, and she gave me a bunch of reasons why, and I kept asking and asking questions. And after just 30 minutes of asking the questions, she had decided that, in fact, everything she had just said was not the issue."
This quote illustrates the difficulty and the transformative power of active listening in uncovering the true root of a person's discontent.
"Jung called that a circumambulation. Okay, so now imagine the threat system is going off, right? It's saying, something's wrong, something's wrong, but it's a primordial Predator detection instinct. That's what's being triggered."
This quote explains Jung's psychological concept of circumambulation, which involves spiraling inward to the true issue as one explores different possibilities.
"They test you on the way to the truth to see how you'll respond."
This quote highlights the process where speakers gauge the listener's reactions to determine if they can safely reveal deeper issues.
"The adjustment that had to be made was getting them back close to bigger challenges."
This quote reveals the true solution to the employee's dissatisfaction, which was not immediately apparent but uncovered through dialogue.
"Freud put people on the couch and sat behind them. See, if I'm face to face with you and I'm laying out the problem space, just what you're signaling to me by your face might stop me from fully revealing the truth."
The quote describes Freud's methodology to prevent the patient's self-censorship based on the therapist's non-verbal cues.
"So a trauma is a problem you encounter in your life that's quite deep, so that it unsettles you, that you do not resolve."
This quote defines trauma as a deep, unresolved issue that can have long-lasting effects on a person's life and behavior.
"The crying is an indication that the current conceptual structure is insufficient. It has to die. And then the tears come."
This quote connects emotional breakdowns to the process of conceptual and personal transformation.
"So we came up with a system where I said to her, when you feel triggered by me not giving you the attention you want and you end up spiraling, can you just try and tell me as soon as possible instead of, like, the seven hour silence?"
This quote exemplifies a practical approach to addressing attachment-related issues in a relationship through direct communication.
"I know that conflict delayed is conflict multiplied."
This quote underscores the notion that avoiding conflict only leads to greater problems down the line.
"You are going to have to listen to your wife 90 minutes a week, okay? And you might as well just get that through your thick skull now."
This quote stresses the importance of dedicating time to listen to one's partner as a means of maintaining a healthy relationship.
"Well, often because the insufficiencies are pointed at them."
This quote suggests that men's reluctance to listen may stem from a defense mechanism against perceived criticism.
"And so they need to know that you will not run away. And that's a vow."
This quote highlights the importance of steadfastness in a relationship, where a vow represents a promise to stay and confront issues together.
"Because what do you know? Look, the person's always going to be thinking, always, if you really knew who I was, you wouldn't love me."
The quote captures the common fear of being unlovable if one's true nature is fully revealed to their partner.
"And so then you might say, well, why not run? It's like, well, you want to run from everyone for the rest of your life."
This statement questions the alternative to commitment, suggesting that constantly running from relationships is not a desirable way to live.
"And you're full of snakes, too. So you're both making a bad bet."
The speaker uses the metaphor of "snakes" to describe personal flaws, highlighting that both partners in a relationship have their own issues to contend with.
"And so you make the bad bet based on the idea that if you are faithful and you are truthful, that you can resolve the issues."
The quote suggests that despite the risks, commitment is made with the belief that honesty and loyalty can overcome the problems in a relationship.
"Resolving issues. Much of what you've talked about stems back to childhood trauma and things that happen in our formative years."
This quote connects the discussion to childhood trauma and its long-term impact on one's ability to resolve issues in relationships.
"Bully victim is someone the bullies will check out."
The speaker explains how bullies identify potential victims, emphasizing the lasting impact of being targeted during childhood.
"And if all those snakes were revealed, perhaps the logical thing to do would run."
Referencing the earlier metaphor, this quote suggests that revealing one's traumatic past or "snakes" might logically lead a partner to leave.
"The bullies tend to become criminal and alienated... And the bully victims tend to become depressed, anxious and dependent."
Jordan outlines the negative developmental trajectories for both bullies and their victims, indicating the far-reaching consequences of these roles.
"But you can listen. If you listen, the person will dispense with some of their accusations by themselves."
Jordan emphasizes the power of listening as a tool for resolving conflicts and allowing the other person to self-reflect on their accusations.
"You'll racket yourself up the hierarchy... because you'll get a reputation as the person who can solve the problem."
Here, Jordan draws a parallel between solving problems in the workplace and in a marriage, suggesting that being a problem-solver is beneficial in both contexts.
"Don't talk to your partner about something complicated when they're hungry."
Jordan provides practical advice for timing difficult conversations, using hunger as an example of a physical state that can affect communication.
"A bottomless abyss. Yeah, it's awful."
Jordan acknowledges the profound and often overwhelming nature of deep-seated trauma.
"You have to develop a philosophy of good and evil... You have to start to embody that."
This quote outlines the necessary steps for healing from trauma, which involve developing a moral framework and actively living by it.
"That's what you do when you negotiate a solution to a problem with your wife, too. Here's..."
The incomplete quote suggests that the process of healing from trauma is similar to resolving conflicts in a marriage, where negotiation and understanding are key.
"Lies ruin your life."
Jordan asserts the destructive power of lies in one's life, emphasizing the need for honesty.
"If you're forced into a situation where you have to tell a white lie, there's snakes somewhere that you haven't dealt with."
This quote suggests that the need to tell even a small lie indicates unresolved issues or "snakes" that need to be addressed.
"You may have already compromised yourself to the point where in that situation, the best you can do is a lie."
Jordan points out that being in a situation where lying seems like the only option is a result of previous compromises that should have been avoided.
"For me, that answer was simple. The answer was very little, until WHOOP came along." "And once I finally started to look at the data and understand how getting less sleep was affecting my body and how my old lifestyle was actually hurting my long term health, everything changed for the better."
"But my sense is now the biggest challenge to young people is negotiating the transition into adulthood identity."
"Every drive attempts to philosophize in its spirit." "That's maturity, okay? But that doesn't happen in isolation."
"America is one nation under God. That's the ultimate level of this hierarchy of identity." "God is that which should be served most fundamentally."
"19 to 35 year olds, which is that demographic that are listening to this predominantly, are twice as likely to report being in crisis than any other group."
"You cannot infer someone's moral worth by the level of accomplishment."
"I would love to be in a position where I could take like the best thousand lecturers in the world, bring them onto Peterson Academy, give them financial independence."
"Just stop lying, period. Stop saying things you believe to be untrue. Stop doing things you know to be wrong."
"It is finally here three years of work from Huel to try and make a bar, a snack bar that is nutritionally complete."