#60 Yvon Chouinard What Weve Learned from Patagonias First 40 Years

In this episode of Founders Podcast, the hosts explore the philosophies and business practices of Yvon Chouinard, the founder of Patagonia, as detailed in his book "The Responsible Company: What We've Learned from Patagonia's First 40 Years." The conversation delves into Chouinard's disdain for traditional marketing and his commitment to creating high-quality, long-lasting products. They discuss the importance of meaningful work, the virtues of small-scale enterprise, and the need for companies to act responsibly towards employees, customers, and the environment. Chouinard's approach to business, from offering parental leave and childcare to encouraging customers to buy less, reflects his belief in doing good as a path to successful business. The hosts also highlight Chouinard's unique hiring practices, favoring diverse and unconventional talent, and his willingness to make bold moves that disrupt accepted practices for environmental responsibility.

• Yvon Chouinard, founder of Patagonia, equates being a marketing director for a cola company to hell.
• He describes the product as unnecessary, identical to competition, and impossible to sell on merit.
• The challenge would lie in competing on price, distribution, advertising, and promotion.

"When I die and go to hell, the devil's going to make me the marketing director for a cola company. I'll be in charge of trying to sell a product that no one needs, is identical to its competition, and can't be sold on its merits."

The quote illustrates Chouinard's disdain for marketing products that lack unique value and his preference for products that stand out on their own merits.

• The book "The Responsible Company" reflects on Patagonia's 40 years of experience.
• It emphasizes the importance of running a business responsibly and sustainably.
• Chouinard's approach is contrasted with that of Howard Hughes, from whom one learns what not to do.

"And that's Yvonne Sherd, the founder of Patagonia, and his book, the responsible Company. What we've learned from Patagonia's 1st 40 years."

This statement introduces Chouinard and his book, which serves as a guide to Patagonia's successful and responsible business model.

• Yvon Chouinard believes in simplifying life and that with more knowledge, one needs less.
• He advocates for working with passion to avoid a miserable, uninspired work life.
• Chouinard compares entrepreneurs to juvenile delinquents, who both reject unsatisfactory systems to do their own thing.

"The hardest thing in the world is to simplify your life. It’s so easy to make it complex."

This quote emphasizes the challenge and importance of leading a simple life, which often leads to greater satisfaction.

• Patagonia values hiring people with diverse backgrounds over business school graduates with standardized training.
• Chouinard believes this diversity leads to new ways of doing business and innovation.
• He sees this as a way to access undiscovered talent and build a successful business.

"For us, hiring people with diverse backgrounds brings in a flexibility of thought and openness to new ways of doing things, as opposed to hiring clones from business school who have been taught a codified way of doing business."

The quote explains Patagonia’s hiring philosophy, which prioritizes diverse experiences and approaches over traditional business education.

• Chouinard prioritizes quality in products, believing it to be a key to successful distribution.
• He sees quality as a means of creating products without competition.
• This philosophy extends from his background in making climbing equipment, where quality could be a matter of life and death.

"I’d much rather design and sell products so good and unique that they have no competition."

This quote captures Chouinard's focus on creating superior products that stand out in the marketplace due to their inherent quality.

• Chouinard values decentralization and the spread of entrepreneurship.
• He believes in diversity and spreading resources rather than accumulating them in empires.
• The decline in new business creation in the U.S. is seen as a move towards centralization, which Chouinard opposes.

"Nature doesn’t like empires. It doesn’t like accumulation in one place. It doesn’t like monoculture. It’s always trying to make diverse species. It wants to spread everything out, and we’re constantly trying to hold everything in."

This quote draws a parallel between natural diversity and business, suggesting that decentralization leads to healthier ecosystems and economies.

• Chouinard views profit as a result of doing everything else right, not as the primary goal.
• He believes focusing on the goal over the process leads to compromise and ultimately failure.
• Patagonia's success is attributed to prioritizing product quality and the well-being of customers and employees.

"Businessmen who focus on profits wind up in the hole. For me, profit is what happens when you do everything else right."

This quote encapsulates Chouinard's belief that a focus on quality and responsible practices naturally leads to profitability.

• Chouinard emphasizes the importance of education in making informed choices.
• He believes in the responsibility of businesses to society and the environment.
• The book aims to inspire people to pursue meaningful work and reject harmful corporate and governmental narratives.

"Once you educate yourself, you’re left with choices."

The quote stresses the role of education in empowering individuals to make choices that align with their values and the greater good.

• The book outlines how company responsibilities have evolved from 1860 to 1960.
• It discusses the shift from manual labor to machine-powered work and the resulting changes in corporate responsibility.
• The authors criticize the modern trend of prioritizing financial gain over the well-being of employees and the environment.

"The responsible company of 1860 was one that paid a return to its shareholders, honored its commitments, and kept honest books. 100 years later, that picture had become far more complex."

This historical perspective highlights the changing expectations of what constitutes a responsible company over time.

• The U.S. economy is heavily dependent on consumer spending.
• The production of goods, including both luxurious items and disposable products, consumes valuable human intelligence.
• There is a critique of the manufacturing of "crap" that is not essential or beneficial to people's lives.

"Two-thirds of the US economy relies on consumer spending."

This quote highlights the significant impact consumer spending has on the U.S. economy, indicating its reliance on the purchasing habits of individuals.

"Much of what we produce to sell to each other to earn our living is crap."

Yvon Chouinard criticizes the quality and necessity of many products in the market, suggesting that a large portion of what is produced and sold is of little value.

• Every manufactured item encapsulates human intelligence and natural capital.
• The concern is raised about the wastage of these invaluable resources on producing disposable items.
• There is a call to recognize the finite nature of human intelligence and natural resources.

"Every piece of crap, because it was manufactured, contains within it something of the priceless, applied human intelligence."

This quote emphasizes that human intellect, a precious resource, is invested in the creation of every product, regardless of its quality or longevity.

• Patagonia offers repair services for their products indefinitely, promoting sustainability.
• Patagonia's business practices include giving credit for old items and refurbishing them for resale, focusing on customer satisfaction over profit.
• The contrast between Patagonia's policies and those of less consumer-centric companies is highlighted.

"Every single person that we know that's building a product or service is like, you have got to put your customer first that is better for the customer, not better for the company."

This quote reflects the philosophy that prioritizing customer needs leads to better business outcomes, as demonstrated by Patagonia's approach.

• Meaningful work is defined as doing something one loves and is good at as a profession.
• It is suggested that meaningful work is discovered through trial and error or by accident.
• The idea that meaningful work can be joyful and enlightening is discussed, with examples from literature and personal experiences.

"At its heart, to have meaningful work is to do something you love to do and are good at and are good at doing for a living."

This quote defines meaningful work as the intersection of passion, skill, and livelihood, highlighting its importance in personal and professional fulfillment.

• Patagonia has historically attracted unconventional talent, including misfits and those disenchanted with traditional academic or corporate paths.
• The company values diverse backgrounds and skills, fostering an environment where employees can discover and utilize their abilities.
• The narrative of Patagonia's CEO, Christine Tompkins, exemplifies the potential of overlooked talent.

"We do not bristle with overachievers who would find reward in what we saw as the real world. Instead, we attracted bright, restless, unconventional people like Christine, who hadn't felt the call toward a vocation."

This quote describes Patagonia's attraction to individuals who may not fit the typical mold of success but possess the intelligence and creativity to contribute meaningfully to the company.

• There is a discussion about the evolution of work, including remote work and distributed companies.
• The benefits of drawing from a global talent pool versus a concentrated local talent pool are debated.
• The concept of rethinking traditional work structures and encouraging entrepreneurship is presented.

"We take so much about work for granted. We do things a certain way because that's how we did it in a previous job."

This quote from Matt Mullenweg challenges the status quo of work practices, suggesting that there is much potential for innovation in how we structure and think about work.

• Companies rarely create a product superior to their bestseller.
• Innovative decisions can be risky, especially for small businesses.
• Yvon Chouinard exemplifies this by discontinuing a profitable product for moral and environmental reasons.

A company that creates a better product than its existing best selling product.

This quote highlights the rarity of companies improving upon their top-selling products, which is the central problem described in the "Innovator's Dilemma."

And it's something Yvonne did because he.

This incomplete statement implies that Yvon Chouinard made a significant business decision based on his principles, setting the stage for the story of his company's pivotal change.

• Chouinard Equipment faced an environmental issue with its climbing hardware.
• The company's hard steel pitons were damaging popular climbing routes.
• Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost decided to phase out pitons for environmental and practical reasons.

With the increased popularity of climbing and its concentration on the same well tried routes, our reusable hard steel pytons had become environmental villains.

This quote explains how the popularity of climbing and the repeated use of pitons were damaging the environment, which led to the company's decision to stop selling them.

Pyton's were the mainstay of the business. But the change had to be made for reasons both moral and practical.

This quote emphasizes the moral and practical reasons behind the decision to stop selling pitons, despite the risk to the company's main source of revenue.

• Educating customers about environmental issues can inspire positive change.
• Treating customers as intelligent individuals can lead to a positive response.
• Corporate responsibility includes being transparent and addressing problems with humanity.

Your customers are not morons if you just tell them, hey, here's the problem.

The quote underscores the importance of treating customers with respect and intelligence by informing them about issues, which can lead to a positive response.

It's just like there's no such thing as a company. It's just a collection of people. And your customers are a collection of people.

This quote emphasizes the human aspect of businesses and the importance of treating customers humanely, recognizing that both the company and its customers are groups of individuals.

• Chouinard Equipment transitioned from selling pitons to chalks.
• The company educated its customers about the environmental impact of pitons.
• The transition was successful and led to the company making a better product.

Within a few months of the catalog's mailing, the Python business had atrophied. Chalks sold faster than they could be made at Shanard equipment.

This quote demonstrates the success of the company's transition from pitons to chalks, showing that customers embraced the environmentally friendly alternative.

Chalks were lighter than Pyton's and more secure.

The quote explains the practical benefits of chalks over pitons, highlighting that the new product was not only environmentally friendly but also superior in quality.

• Patagonia introduced childcare in the workplace to support working parents.
• The decision faced initial resistance but ultimately improved employee satisfaction.
• The presence of children in the workplace contributed to a more human and less corporate environment.

The kids stayed and they have made a difference to the quality of our workday.

This quote reflects the positive impact that the presence of children had on the work environment, contributing to a more human and less corporate atmosphere.

We have a very low employee turnover rate, especially among parents of school age children.

The quote indicates that the childcare program led to a lower employee turnover rate, which is beneficial for the company's financial health and employee retention.

• Yvon Chouinard's family history in factory labor influenced his views on meaningful work.
• Chouinard's goal is to provide work that is responsible to people and nature.
• The company strives to meet employees' needs for self-worth and self-fulfillment.

Their new life met their basic needs for food and shelter, as well as their social needs.

This quote describes how Chouinard's ancestors' transition from farm life to factory work met their basic needs but likely came at the cost of their sense of worth and self-fulfillment.

Our daily gestures, on one hand mundane and often tedious, are, on the other hand, infused with the effort to give something useful and enjoyable to society without bringing undue harm to nature.

The quote explains that even though the work at Patagonia can be mundane, it is given meaning by the company's commitment to social and environmental responsibility.

• Patagonia encourages customers to buy thoughtfully and invest in durable products.
• The company's approach aims to reduce environmental impact and foster customer loyalty.
• Patagonia's pledge to repair and resell products supports sustainable consumption.

We wagered that if our customers were to buy more thoughtfully and if we were to do our job well and make useful, high quality products, they would continue to buy from us and we'd gain new customers who shared our commitment.

This quote reflects Patagonia's belief that responsible consumption and high-quality products will not only retain existing customers but also attract new ones who value the company's commitment to sustainability.

• Patagonia believes in organizing productive working groups to minimize bureaucracy.
• The company values community cohesion and maintains small group sizes for efficiency.
• Engaging employees in meaningful work leads to a more fluid and less wasteful organization.

Twelve is a good number for a small group to bond and work in concert. To achieve a specific task with minimum hierarchy, think of a jury, a tribal hunting party, or an army squad.

This quote exemplifies the ideal group size for efficient teamwork and minimal hierarchy, drawing comparisons to familiar small group dynamics.

You will spot money leaks you could not see before, and you will gain the confidence to recognize and go after opportunities that a company bound by traditional corporate see no evil politeness cannot begin to address.

The quote suggests that a more engaged and responsible workforce will lead to a more efficient organization that can identify and pursue opportunities that traditional companies might overlook.

• Yvon Chouinard describes the preindustrial revolution style of Chouinard Equipment, Patagonia's predecessor, with no time clocks or assembly lines.
• Patagonia initially rewarded initiative with a 10% bonus for 40-hour workweeks, which was later deemed illegal.
• As the company grew, they had to professionalize by assigning bright, inexperienced people to new roles, offering fair pay, healthcare, and casual dress codes.
• Patagonia allowed flexible work hours for activities like surfing, as long as the work was completed.
• The worst day was in 1991 when 150 employees were laid off due to mismanagement, leading to improved morale among remaining employees.

Our tin sheds held equipment, a drop hammer forge, an anvil, a coal forge, jigs for drilling, aluminum chalks, but no time clocks or assembly lines. Everyone was poor and most lived marginal. For a while, we paid a 10% bonus to anyone who had the initiative to work 40 hours a week, a practice that turned out to be illegal. We were busted and required to stop. That's interesting. We partied heartily. The shed faced a courtyard where we celebrated almost any event with a barbecued lamb and a keg. When we became a clothing company and as sales increased, we had to become more professional, a process that at first consisted of throwing bright, inexperienced young people into new jobs to see if they could learn what we needed to know how to do.

The quotes reflect on the early days of Patagonia, highlighting its informal work environment and trial-and-error approach to professionalization as the company grew.

• Patagonia's approach to customer relationships emphasizes building something useful without resorting to deceit.
• The company believes in enduring satisfaction from products and services and avoiding misleading advertisements.
• Paul Hawken's dislike for advertising reflects a desire for honest customer relationships.
• The increasing noise in commercial spaces and customer frustration with disposable products are challenges to maintaining customer loyalty.
• Authenticity in marketing and storytelling is crucial, as false images can be easily debunked in the modern world.

First, make something or offer a service someone can use for which satisfaction endures. Second, your company should romance, but not bullshit the people whose business it solicits. Since the mid 1980s, when Hawken made his comment, commercial space has much expanded and grown ever more noisy. More products have become more disposable, more customers experience, more frustration. The strongest thing your company can do is something no one else will do or will do well to turn for a moment to romance.

These quotes emphasize the importance of creating valuable, long-lasting products and services and maintaining honest communication with customers to build lasting relationships.

• Patagonia experienced financial mismanagement, leading to layoffs and a reevaluation of growth for growth's sake.
• The company learned to focus on financial health and to make bold moves that reflect well on the company and lead to environmentally responsible products.
• The need for smaller scale enterprises in the new economy is highlighted as a way to create stability and well-paying jobs.

For two years we had managed the company too carelessly, bought too much inventory, sold too little of it, hired too many people, and salted away too little money to pay for an expansion that our bank cheerfully financed until they got into troubles of their own and pulled the plug. We advocate a combination of steady improvements with the occasional breathtakingly bold move to keep everyone awake and motivated to show leadership that reflects well on everyone in the company.

These quotes outline the financial challenges Patagonia faced and the lessons learned about responsible growth and innovation, as well as the broader economic implications of corporate practices.

• Yvon Chouinard believes in straightforward, no-nonsense ideas and common sense backed by experience.
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