In the latest episode of "20 Growth" with host Harry Stebbings, Guillaume Cabane, a seasoned growth advisor for SaaS startups, delves into the intricacies of scaling growth through experiments and data-driven strategies. Cabane emphasizes the importance of focusing on value-driven KPIs over vanity metrics, advocating for a cost-effective approach to customer acquisition and the significance of personalized, human-centric marketing tactics. He shares insights from his experiences at Apple and various startups, highlighting innovative experiments like segment's hot coffee outreach and the necessity for growth teams to make bold, calculated bets. Moreover, Cabane discusses the challenges of hiring for growth roles, suggesting that former founders or individuals with a strong consulting background are ideal candidates. He also notes the resurgence of cold calling, thanks to advancements in AI, and the persistent effectiveness of email marketing. Throughout the conversation, the theme of leveraging creativity, risk assessment, and community-driven social proof emerges as key to driving sustainable growth in the competitive SaaS landscape.
"What I care about? How many experiments can I have running at the same time where I learn if you can drive value about mistakes, problems of the business you have discovered that your audience does not know. You will get engagement guaranteed. Reject any KPI that is vanity. You don't care about traffic. You don't care about any of those KPIs. The only thing you care about is."
This quote highlights the focus on learning from experiments and the importance of selecting KPIs that are not just vanity metrics but are indicative of real value to the business.
"One is I'm an old man now. I started in the early 2000 at Apple... Didn't need to ask for anyone... That's when I realized that leveraging engineers to build quasi products, to build demand and drive people to the product that is different... And at that time it just started to be called growth and I just landed in the right place at the right time."
The quote explains how Guillaume's background and experiences led him to a career in growth, highlighting the importance of experimentation and technical marketing.
"Segment is a technical product targeting an engineering audience... We did a crazy attribution logic where we found engineers across jobs by keying not on the email... on the LinkedIn URL because unless you're a psychopath, you don't change your LinkedIn URL between jobs... And so we just took from collaborate all the LinkedIn URLs of all the people and we say, hey, has that person came three months ago, four, five months ago? And if yes, did they come through a startup plan?"
This quote outlines the innovative attribution logic used at Segment to track and capitalize on the movement of engineers between jobs, demonstrating the long-term value of a free or startup plan.
"For us, the golden rule. To be in the top decile of startups in terms of performance. Thus, in terms of valuation and funding and outcomes, you would have to grow past the first million, three x the first year, three x the second year, and then two x for every year for the next three years. So, 3322, all right? And if you do that, you end up at 100 million plus in revenue in five years."
This quote provides a clear explanation of the "3322" growth framework, which serves as a goal for startups aiming to reach the top decile in performance.
"Four months of payback time is really good. That's how you should think about it. Every time a customer churns before four months is a loan that has not been repaid, it's a default on your debt."
This quote highlights the significance of a short payback time, comparing customer churn before this period to a financial loss or an unpaid loan.
"I understand where you're coming from on financial products... It's unlikely that changes because the cost of switching is super high."
Guillaume Cabane explains why financial platforms often have a long customer retention time, which justifies higher LTV assumptions due to the high cost of switching platforms.
"Yeah, three to one is really good."
Guillaume Cabane states that a 3:1 ratio of LTV to CAC is a strong indicator of a company's health and efficiency in customer acquisition.
"Growth is a risk adjusted way of creating value."
This quote defines growth in the context of startups, emphasizing the importance of making educated bets based on limited information.
"A good learning is a statistically significant deviation from your status quo."
Guillaume Cabane explains that a successful experiment in growth marketing must show a clear and significant impact compared to existing metrics.
"Relevance creates reciprocity. Reciprocity gets you responses."
Guillaume Cabane breaks down the psychology behind effective communication, explaining that personalized messages that resonate with the recipient's situation are more likely to elicit a response.
"The acquisition cost of doing that is zero. If your competitors are not doing it, you have this green ocean in front of you with this. No competition, zero dollar CAC. That's competitive mode."
Guillaume Cabane discusses the advantage of a growth tactic that, once established, has no marginal cost and can provide a significant competitive edge.
"They don't think of the humans on the other side. They don't think of the psychology enough."
Guillaume Cabane criticizes companies for not putting enough effort into understanding the psychological drivers of their customers, which is crucial for effective marketing.
"Now, let's say you go through the junk mail as you throw it away. There's this one letter that's sealed letter that's obviously written by a human, obviously by an old person. And there's your name, Harry, on it. Harry Stemming is written on it, and there's the return address behind it. They even maybe like, lick the stamp and put it on the envelope. You're very convinced as a human. How like you are you, Harry, to dig that envelope and throw it in the trash without opening it? No way. Right? You would be a psychopath if you did that."
This quote exemplifies the power of personalization in communication, suggesting that a personalized approach can make the recipient feel obligated to respond or engage with the message.
"So what we did is that we matched two data sets. The college where each CFO went and the upcoming games of that college against the opponent team. We then built a very simplified betting algorithm to see is the CFO's team likely to win or lose. And we send that in an email and say, hey, Harry, your team, the Sharks or whatever, is going against like the Bisons or whatever next week, and I'm ready to bet $50 that your team is about to lose if you went up on top, I'll give you $50, no question to ask if you lose. I'll just ask for a 20 minutes call."
The quote describes a specific example of how personalization and relevance can be used to capture the attention of a target audience that is typically difficult to engage, by leveraging their interests and offering a compelling proposition.
"It's very likely that we'll start ignoring messages from real humans at a much higher rate because the quality of AI will be better than the quality of humans."
This quote highlights the potential challenge that AI poses to personal communication, suggesting that as AI improves, it may surpass human communication in quality, leading to a shift in how we engage with messages.
"It's not cold outbounds communications dying, personal communications dying. It's not just cold outbound. The same is true on phone calls. Phone calls, text calls, like blog posts, anything that is a human written content is soon likely to be better if done by an AI."
The quote indicates that AI's influence will extend beyond cold outreach to all forms of personal communication, necessitating new strategies to maintain genuine human connection.
"I have never seen companies I've worked with neither at segment or at Drift Corgis and not in one of the companies I engage with. We were able to get to 50 million on one channel, not one."
This quote refutes the idea that a single channel can be solely responsible for reaching high revenue milestones, based on Guillaume's experience with multiple companies.
"I recommend companies to two x the budget every week until it sat lines. Just do it for like four weeks, six weeks. It's not going to burn your budget, your entire capital, but just two x on a week two, two x on week three, two x on week four."
The quote provides a practical strategy for businesses to test and understand the scalability of their marketing channels, ensuring that they can confidently invest in growth.
"Reject any KPI that is vanity. You don't care about traffic, you don't care about any of those KPIs. The only thing you care about is weight adjusted pipeline dollars."
This quote stresses the significance of focusing on KPIs that directly correlate with revenue, dismissing metrics that do not contribute to the bottom line.
"Let's say your acv is ten k and your lead score predicts a likelihood to close of 30%. So the value of that company or pipe is $3,000. It's not ten, it's three."
The quote explains how to use lead scoring to estimate the value of leads in the pipeline, which helps in making accurate revenue predictions and in strategic decision-making.
"The elite score itself generally is within ops."
The quote indicates that the operational aspect of lead scoring, an important part of growth efforts, is typically managed within the operations department, reflecting the interdisciplinary nature of growth teams.
But the head of golf is the analyst in the early days. So you have like head of growth engineer and one marketer copywriter. That's your team.
This quote outlines the essential roles within a growth team, emphasizing the importance of having a head of growth with analytical capabilities, an engineer, and a marketer copywriter.
You want to ensure that they can look at your data, which means you need to give them take home that has some of your data.
This quote highlights the importance of evaluating a candidate's ability to analyze real company data and identify irregularities as part of the hiring process for a growth role.
What's their approach to risk, to making bets and coming out on top? How do they win when they face interesting challenge.
This quote explains the rationale behind asking candidates about their gaming strategies to gauge their approach to challenges, risk-taking, and strategic thinking, which are crucial for growth roles.
It's fairly obvious pretty fast. They won't try aggressive things.
This quote suggests that a bad hire in growth can be identified by their lack of initiative in trying bold and innovative strategies.
My constraint is headcount and velocity. That's why I optimize for those things. It's rarely budget because I'm not competing on budget.
This quote emphasizes that the limitation in growth is often the team's capacity to execute experiments, not the financial budget.
Not once have I hired a senior person in a position where there's no one else to empower them. And they told me they would get their hands dirty. Have they gotten their hands dirty? Not once they lost it.
This quote underscores the issue with hiring senior individuals for hands-on roles, as they often do not fulfill their promise of being actively involved in the groundwork.
Do people respect Apple's brand and marketing? Absolutely. But that's more like the exception than the rule.
This quote reflects on the varying levels of respect for marketing depending on the company's focus and the success of marketing campaigns.
You should always hire full time when you can.
This quote advises that full-time hires are preferable to advisors when the right candidate is available, but acknowledges the role of advisors when such hires are not feasible.
There's 120 people.
This quote indicates the scarcity of highly experienced growth professionals, highlighting the challenge for early-stage companies to attract such talent.
The key to success and growth is testing and learning. And so if you can outsource the cost of learning to other teams, either through advisory like I did in the early days, or through good relationships, you are saving a ton of effort and capital, and you can deploy those learnings to your business and look like a fucking genius.
This quote suggests that learning from others through strong connections or advisory roles can significantly benefit new growth leaders by allowing them to apply successful strategies to their own businesses.