In this insightful conversation, Tony Fadell, renowned as the "father of the iPod" and founder of Nest, joins the host to discuss his journey in the tech industry and the wisdom he imparts in his book, "Build." They delve into the intricacies of product development, exploring the balance between art and science, data and opinion, and the significance of customer experience. Tony shares candid anecdotes, including the iPod's evolution and the missteps with products like the iPod Hi-Fi, emphasizing the importance of constraints and learning from failures. Scott Belsky's contributions and the role of product marketing in aligning with customer needs are also highlighted. The discussion concludes with Tony's initiative, the Build Climate Fund, which supports climate crisis startups, demonstrating his commitment to mentorship and environmental impact.
So I have to be honest, I think there are a few podcast episodes that really stand the test of time. However, I have no doubt that this 20 product is one of them. With a friend and industry OG in the one and only Tony Fadel.
This quote introduces Tony Fadell, highlighting his significance in the industry and foreshadowing the valuable insights he will provide in the episode.
It's a very simple summarize my life. Let's see. I've been a geek since birth, well, not birth, but almost birth geek with analog tools and hammers and nails and all that stuff, like two or three, and then wound up having a tool called a computer when I was about ten years old, something like that, and fell in love with writing my first programs.
Tony Fadell describes his lifelong passion for technology and how it shaped his career, leading to significant contributions to the tech industry.
In fact, in the book, there's a chapter called data versus opinion. And really what it's about is when are certain decisions opinion based decisions? You'll never get the data to be able to make a decision, and you need an opinion just to follow through.
This quote emphasizes the interplay between data and opinion in making product decisions, particularly when data is insufficient or unavailable.
No, I wouldn't say that. I think as you go through successive versions, you get better and better data from people who are actually paying for whatever it is you're doing.
Tony Fadell clarifies that while gut and opinion are important, data becomes increasingly valuable as a product matures and receives customer feedback.
All the data told me, don't go to a color screen, it's going to wreck your battery life. It's going to do all of these things. It's going to make the device bigger, more expensive, heavier. The battery life is going to be horrible. There's so many downsides with going to color. Don't go to color. Stay black and white.
Tony Fadell recounts an instance where data was contrary to what the market eventually desired, highlighting the complexity of product decisions.
You can't always just trust what the customer says, because what happens is our framing of it. We're asking the questions, oh, well, if you bought it, it would be like this, this and this. And then here's the cons. Like, we gave them the review, so to speak, but they don't get that when they're in the store.
This quote explains the discrepancy between customer-stated preferences and their actual purchasing decisions, highlighting the limitations of customer surveys and interviews.
Every single time we would have a new rev of the product. Do we have to keep the screwdriver in the box? Do we have to keep the it cost us XYZ amount of money. I'm like, we need it in there.
Tony Fadell illustrates a case where his opinion on maintaining a brand element in the product packaging overruled data-driven arguments for cost reduction.
Because you're not going to have a great business if you don't have great customers who love your brand.
This quote encapsulates the philosophy that customer satisfaction and brand loyalty are paramount to business success, even if it requires higher costs for certain product features.
"You got to have a bigger vision of what the needs are of the individual customer as well as the collective customer and go, wait a second, maybe this would be better for the planet overall, and I'll get these new customers that wouldn't consider our product because we're doing something smart here for the environment."
This quote emphasizes the necessity of having a larger vision that includes the environmental impact of products and how this can attract new customers and benefit the planet.
"It takes imagination, it takes leaders who really see the bigger picture than just the numbers."
Leadership requires creativity and the ability to see beyond immediate profit and loss, considering the long-term benefits and opportunities that sustainable practices can bring.
"What about once that package is on the doorstep or that software download is happening, what are the next steps after that to where they have this amazing product experience?"
Tony Fadell emphasizes the importance of considering the customer's journey beyond just receiving the product, focusing on the entire experience from unboxing to first use.
"Each experience and customer touch point should build positively on the last one and all the way till the first experience of the product should be even better, right? It should be stellar."
The goal is to create a continuously improving experience for the customer, with each touchpoint building on the last to culminate in an exceptional first experience with the product.
"The default is 98% of the time. Everybody just wants a simple, easy experience."
Tony Fadell argues that most customers prefer a straightforward experience, and products should be designed with this in mind to avoid unnecessary complexity.
"Why are we giving them more pain in the first mile experience, when you think you've solved their pain just beyond the first mile experience, it just makes no sense to me."
The quote highlights the folly of creating a negative initial experience for customers, especially when the product is meant to solve a problem, not create new ones.
"So you pick that primary path and you optimize everything around it."
Tony Fadell stresses the importance of choosing a primary customer path and tailoring the product experience around it to avoid trying to please everyone and pleasing no one.
"How are they going to think about thinking like they might think and put your role playing out of like, why did this come up on the screen? I don't understand."
The ability to empathize with the customer and question every step of the process from their perspective is crucial for creating an intuitive and satisfying product experience.
"The best marketing is just truth telling. As long as the product meets the expectations you set for it."
Steve Jobs' philosophy, as recounted by Tony Fadell, emphasizes honesty in marketing and ensuring the product delivers on its promises.
"If you don't believe it, why should anybody else?"
Tony Fadell argues that belief in a product's value is essential for effective marketing, and without confidence, the messaging will fail to inspire customers.
"These product marketers, the best ones, know how to speak the languages of all these different disciplines to make sure that they're hearing what it means, why we're doing this product, and what it means for finance, what it means for customer support, what it means to the various target customers."
Tony Fadell describes the best product marketers as those who can effectively communicate the product's purpose and benefits across various disciplines within the company and to the customer.
"Product marketing is the voice of the customer. First and foremost, they are the voice of the customer who then puts together all of the things that they hear around to make a story that works for the customer and works for the business."
This quote emphasizes the role of product marketing as a customer advocate, synthesizing customer feedback and business needs into a marketable story.
"Messaging is the core things for why it is the way it is. It may turn into different words and visuals and videos and stuff like that, but product marketing is all about the messaging, of putting all of these pieces together and making into one cohesive story."
This quote clarifies that product marketing is fundamentally about crafting the core message that informs all creative and branding efforts.
"One thing is stating what it does, the other one is showing what it does and putting it in your context."
This quote distinguishes between simply stating product benefits (messaging) and demonstrating them in a relatable context (creative and branding).
"The iPod was a critical success, but it didn't really turn into a successful business till the third generation."
This quote illustrates the importance of persistence and market adaptation in product marketing, using the iPod's gradual success as an example.
"You need to have really good constraints to avoid these kinds of product nightmares."
The quote highlights the importance of having constraints and focus during product development to prevent over-engineering and ensure market fit.
"I don't like to be swimming in money. I don't like any team swimming in money."
This quote from Tony Fadell suggests that too much funding can remove the necessary constraints that drive creativity and urgency in product development.
"Great leader always has to be looking behind his back going, oh, wait a second, there's competition coming because if we're successful, the competition will be coming."
Tony Fadell indicates that a leader must be vigilant about competition and continuously push the team to innovate to stay ahead.
"Should competition drive product strategy? No, absolutely not."
Tony Fadell asserts that competition should not be the driving force behind product strategy, emphasizing the importance of innovation and originality.
"What the table stakes are, the minimum feature sets. You need to have to kind of play so that you're not just giving them a new differentiated thing and all these other things that you don't have. There are basic things that they're like, we don't have that. Everyone has that. It depends if you're first to market versus you're coming into a market, but competition should inform, but it should not drive."
This quote emphasizes the need for a product to meet certain industry standards (table stakes) to be competitive, while also cautioning against letting competition dictate product strategy.
"Well, first you got to show what you did right. What did you get wrong? And was this a macro issue or was this a micro issue?"
This quote explains the key elements of a post mortem, focusing on identifying successes, failures, and their context.
"I don't spend too much time on pre mortems. We spent a lot of time on that press release, the mock press release."
This quote indicates a preference for focusing on a mock press release as a tool for risk management over traditional pre mortems.
"Well, they come to all the meetings first and foremost."
This quote signifies the importance of including product marketing in all relevant meetings to ensure alignment and communication between marketing and product development.
"Well, first, founders typically are the product managers."
This quote addresses the tendency of founders to take on product management roles and the need to delegate as the company expands.
"Build is really a set of lessons. It's an advice encyclopedia, mentorship in a box."
This quote explains the intent behind the book "Build," which is to offer mentorship and practical advice to readers.
"The nothing ear ones. So nothing, the brand, the ear ones, they say, okay, yes. Full disclosure, I'm an investor."
This quote shares a recent product experience that impressed the speaker, while also disclosing his investment in the company.
"We are starting a climate fund. It's called Build Climate Fund."
This quote introduces the Build Climate Fund as an initiative to support startups focused on the climate crisis.