Ronnie Chan, a Hong Kong entrepreneur, discusses the shifting global power dynamics, emphasizing China's rise and the United States' efforts to contain it. He argues that China's growing economic power naturally leads to increased political influence, and questions the West's tendency to impose its values globally. Chan highlights China's historical and ongoing contributions, such as the Belt and Road Initiative, and calls for mutual respect and understanding. He critiques Western perceptions of China's actions, particularly in the South China Sea and regarding environmental and social responsibilities, urging a pragmatic approach to international relations.
US-China Containment Dynamics
- The discussion begins with a debate on whether China is containing the United States or vice versa.
- The speaker argues that it is the United States attempting to contain China, not the other way around.
- The conversation touches on the implications of imposing values and the perception of dividing the world.
"It is not China who is containing the United States. It's the United States who is trying to contain China."
- The quote highlights the speaker's perspective that the US is actively trying to limit China's influence, not the reverse.
China's Economic and Political Integration
- The intersection of economics and politics is discussed, emphasizing that economic growth naturally leads to political power.
- China's growing economic integration with the world necessitates political and military measures to protect its interests.
- The conversation references historical events, such as the 1996 Taiwan Strait Crisis, as pivotal moments that influenced China's military strategy.
"When you have a big country like China, 1.4 billion people rising economically, it is absolutely natural that political power will accompany the economic power."
- This quote underscores the inevitability of China's political rise alongside its economic growth.
Historical Context and China's Military Development
- The discussion reflects on historical instances where China's military capabilities were tested, such as the 1996 incident involving US aircraft carriers.
- The need for China to develop its military to protect its economic interests is emphasized.
"Two aircraft carriers from America... and the whole of China can do nothing. That woke up the Chinese."
- This quote illustrates the wake-up call for China to strengthen its military capabilities in response to perceived threats.
China's International Responsibilities
- China is portrayed as taking on more international responsibilities due to its size and economic power.
- The speaker argues that China's actions are often scrutinized due to its global prominence.
"China is doing what any other country would do except that China is a big country."
- This quote highlights the double standards applied to China due to its size and influence.
China's Cultural and Social Contributions
- The potential for China to contribute culturally and artistically to the global community is discussed.
- The conversation touches on China's past isolation and its current integration into the global cultural scene.
"As China is economically integrated into the global community... it will unleash the creativity and artistic expression of 1.4 billion people."
- This quote emphasizes the potential for China's cultural renaissance as it becomes more globally integrated.
China's Model for Developing Economies
- China's economic development model is presented as a potential blueprint for other developing countries, particularly in Africa.
- The conversation contrasts China's approach with historical colonialism by Western countries.
"The model of economic development that China has just underwent... is far more akin to the condition of many developing economies."
- This quote suggests that China's development experience can serve as a guide for other nations with similar economic conditions.
Environmental Concerns and Global Responsibilities
- The discussion acknowledges environmental challenges and China's role in contributing to global environmental solutions.
- The speaker draws parallels between past environmental issues in Western countries and current challenges in China.
"1952 Britain, 1973 Los Angeles, now you have 2017 China."
- This quote draws historical comparisons to illustrate that environmental challenges are not unique to China and have been overcome by other nations.
Environmental Responsibility and Economic Development
- Enlightenment in environmental issues is not sufficient; financial resources are essential for impactful change.
- Historical context of China's technological and economic limitations in adopting electric cars 15-20 years ago.
- China's current leadership in environmental consciousness surpasses that of the U.S.
"George Schultz asked me... how come China does not build electric cars? ... I said, George, if you want China to do that, who's going to pay? ... 15-20 years ago China was poor."
- Demonstrates the historical economic constraints that hindered China's early adoption of electric vehicle technology.
"Today I can assure you the leaders in Beijing are far more enlightened than the leaders in Washington DC concerning the environment."
- Highlights China's current leadership in environmental awareness compared to the U.S.
Historical Context of Migration and Refugee Acceptance
- Historical examples of China accepting refugees, including Jews and Arabs, over the centuries.
- Uncertainty about China's current stance on accepting refugees from regions like Syria and Myanmar.
"A thousand years ago, there were tens of thousands of Jews at that time, refugees. Where did they end up? Nobody took them. China did."
- Provides historical context of China's acceptance of Jewish refugees.
"I suggest you ask them if they would take them because China is very big. China is the most populated country in the world. Will they accept? I don't know."
- Acknowledges the uncertainty regarding China's contemporary policy on accepting refugees.
The Changing World Order and China's Role
- Recognition of China's emergence as a major global power.
- The shifting dynamics of a Western-dominated world order and its crisis.
- The inevitability of change in the world order due to China's rise.
"Whether the west is in disorder or not, the rise of a big country like China, no choice will change the world order."
- Suggests that China's rise will inherently alter the global power structure.
"The question rather is, is the rest of the world willing to accept that 1.4 billion people want to better their livelihood. Is that legitimate?"
- Poses a question about the global acceptance of China's aspirations for economic improvement.
Western Ideology and Value Imposition
- Criticism of Western ideological rigidity, particularly in media and politics.
- The divisive nature of imposing one's values on others, as seen in Western discourse.
"Chancellor Merkel, you keep using the word shared value. I live in China. Am I supposed to share your value by saying so?"
- Questions the implications of Western nations imposing their values on others.
"Can you learn not to impose your value on other countries? But perhaps they have values to share."
- Challenges the idea of Western value imposition, suggesting mutual respect for differing values.
U.S. Isolationism and Global Responsibility
- Historical context of U.S. isolationism versus internationalism.
- Concerns about the U.S. potentially retreating from global responsibilities under current leadership.
"Isolationism in America did not start with Donald Trump... America from day one is an isolationism country, not an internationalism country."
- Provides historical insight into America's foundational isolationist tendencies.
"So America can easily go back to isolationism. And I do worry that America has that tendency always."
- Expresses concern about America's potential shift back to isolationism.
China's Historical Grievances and Global Ambitions
- Historical grievances from Western colonialism and oppression in China.
- China's desire to regain respect and responsibility on the global stage.
"China never want to be number one because China always was number one for 3,000 years. Then the last 200 years become number nothing."
- Reflects on China's historical status and its recent resurgence.
"China is today just want to be back to the global scene as a responsible and respected member of the international community."
- Highlights China's aim to be a respected global player.
Concerns About China's Rise and Global Perception
- Acknowledgement of concerns regarding China's rise, particularly in regions like Xinjiang and Tibet.
- The importance of distinguishing between rational and irrational fears about China's global influence.
"So there are reasons to be concerned about China's rise. That's what you're saying. Of course there is. Who would be so naive to think that a big guy like China with 1.4 billion people rising people would not be worried."
- Recognizes legitimate concerns about China's growing influence.
"What I do object to is irrational fear. Fear is understandable. Irrational fear is terrible."
- Distinguishes between rational concerns and unfounded fears regarding China's rise.
South China Sea Disputes and Historical Claims
- Historical claims to territories in the South China Sea based on post-WWII agreements.
- The ongoing disputes and perceptions of China's actions in the region.
"Japan in 1945 has to give back all the territory that it has taken from its neighbors. Who did Japan give all those islands back to? China."
- Asserts China's historical claims to disputed territories in the South China Sea.
"If you have a problem with facts, then end of discussion."
- Emphasizes the importance of historical facts in territorial disputes.
Historical Territorial Disputes in East Asia
- The speaker discusses historical territorial disputes involving China, Japan, and the United States, particularly focusing on islands given back to China after World War II and later contested.
- The dispute over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands is highlighted, with historical context provided regarding the Cairo Declaration and subsequent geopolitical tensions.
"In the Cairo declaration at the end of the Second World War, that island together with the whole of the Ryukyu were given back to China."
- The Cairo Declaration is cited as a historical basis for China's claim to the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.
"Japan announced unilaterally that they bought it from the owner of the island, the occupier of the island, whatever it is, they nationalize it."
- Japan's unilateral nationalization of the islands is a point of contention, illustrating the ongoing dispute.
China's Response to Territorial Encroachments
- The speaker argues that China's reactions to territorial disputes are justified due to provocations by other nations.
- The concept of "big guy" versus "small guy" dynamics is used to explain China's stance.
"You do this, I do that. You act one way, I react another way."
- China responds to actions by other countries with reciprocal measures, reflecting its position as a global power.
"You expect a big guy to lie down and say, 'Rape me.' I would expect a big guy to try and build confidence."
- The speaker criticizes the expectation for China to remain passive in the face of territorial challenges.
South China Sea Disputes
- The speaker references historical claims and actions regarding the South China Sea, noting a shift in claims during China's period of weakness in the 1970s.
- The role of the United States in escorting the Chinese Navy to reclaim islands is questioned.
"Before 1970s, none of those nations in the South China Sea surrounding claim any of that stuff."
- The speaker argues that claims in the South China Sea emerged during China's period of vulnerability.
"Why did the United States 7th fleet escort the Chinese Navy to take back all that island in 1945?"
- The involvement of the U.S. Navy in the historical context of the South China Sea disputes is highlighted.
One Belt, One Road Initiative
- The One Belt, One Road Initiative is compared to the ancient Silk Road, emphasizing its economic and political significance.
- The initiative aims to globalize underdeveloped regions, particularly Central Asia, for trade and economic benefits.
"The Belt and Road Initiative is nothing more than the Silk Road of 2,000 years ago."
- The initiative is positioned as a modern continuation of historical trade routes.
"Which part of the world is the least globalized in the whole wide world today? Central Asia."
- Central Asia is identified as a key target for globalization through the Belt and Road Initiative.
Geopolitical and Economic Implications
- The initiative is described as both economic and geopolitical, with energy security and political stability as key goals.
- China's relationships with energy-rich countries along the Silk Road are crucial for its energy diversification.
"Economics and politics at the end of the day is all together."
- The interconnectedness of economic and political objectives in the Belt and Road Initiative is emphasized.
"China needs energy... a lot of those countries on the new Silk Road are rich in energy."
- Energy security is a major driver of China's engagement with countries along the Belt and Road.
China's Relations with Europe
- The speaker discusses China's diplomatic relations with European countries, highlighting trade as a primary focus.
- The relationship with Europe is framed as mutually beneficial, with China seeking technology and luxury goods.
"Whoever wants to be a friend of China, China is more than happy to be a friend of yours."
- China's openness to diplomatic and trade relationships with European nations is emphasized.
"Europe is a big market. 600 million people very wealthy buy a lot of goods."
- The economic potential of Europe as a trading partner for China is highlighted.
North Korea and China's Diplomatic Position
- The speaker critiques the United States' historical approach to North Korea, noting missed diplomatic opportunities.
- China's strategic interests in maintaining North Korea as a buffer state are contrasted with U.S. regime change tendencies.
"Every time there is a diplomatic solution and Americans will be the first to admit that America last minute all mess it up."
- The speaker argues that the U.S. has repeatedly missed chances for diplomatic solutions with North Korea.
"China's endgame for North Korea is exactly the opposite of what America wants."
- China's strategic interest in maintaining North Korea as a buffer state is highlighted as a key difference from U.S. objectives.
China's Diplomatic Position and Relations with North Korea
- China is criticized for its support of North Korea, but it maintains this relationship due to historical ties and strategic interests.
- The U.S. seeks a scapegoat for its diplomatic failures with North Korea, often blaming China.
- China's approach to North Korea is influenced by its desire to maintain stability in the region and its historical alliances.
"So America is just looking for a scapegoat for all the mis diplomatic mistakes that it has made in the last 40 years and so now blame it on China."
- This quote highlights the perception that the U.S. blames China for its own diplomatic shortcomings with North Korea.
"And the China, whatever you say about the communist China, they remember their friends. And the Kim dynasty have been their friends for the last 60, 70 years."
- This underscores China's long-standing relationship with North Korea, which influences its current diplomatic stance.
China's Global Role and Relationship with the U.S.
- China prefers to play a secondary role internationally, allowing the U.S. to take the lead.
- The notion of Chinese and American exceptionalism clashing is seen as a potential threat to global peace.
- China benefits from the current global order and prefers to avoid direct confrontation with the U.S.
"China is very happy to play second fiddle to the United States in international affairs."
- This quote reflects China's strategic choice to support the U.S. leadership rather than challenge it directly.
"We don't want to be number one. The best position is it to be in is number three or number four."
- This quote from a Chinese ambassador illustrates China's preference to avoid the burdens of being the leading global power.
China's Approach to International Respect and Development
- China focuses on economic development rather than political influence to gain international respect.
- It engages with regions like Africa and Latin America through trade and development, contrasting with historical European colonialism.
- Collaboration with the U.S. is seen as essential for solving global issues, despite China's reluctance to embrace the G2 concept.
"China at this stage is concentrating on economics rather than political."
- This quote indicates China's strategy to gain international respect through economic means.
"No serious problem in the world can be resolved without the United States and China agreeing on it."
- This highlights the necessity of U.S.-China collaboration in addressing global challenges.
Hong Kong and the One Country, Two Systems Principle
- There is criticism of China's handling of Hong Kong, especially regarding freedom of speech and political autonomy.
- The historical context of British rule in Hong Kong is used to argue that current freedoms are greater than before 1997.
- China's lack of strict enforcement of the Basic Law in Hong Kong is seen as a failure to manage the region effectively.
"You think the Brits are saints? Think twice."
- This challenges the perception that British rule in Hong Kong was more liberal than current Chinese governance.
"The best way to manage Hong Kong is to not manage it."
- This reflects China's hands-off approach to Hong Kong, which has led to criticism and unrest.
Leadership and Governance in China
- The current Chinese leadership under Xi Jinping is seen as powerful but necessary to combat corruption.
- The Chinese political system is evolving, and the concentration of power is viewed pragmatically as a means to achieve stability and reform.
- The Western perspective on power concentration is contrasted with the Chinese approach to governance and corruption.
"Without the power he can never deal with corruption."
- This quote justifies the concentration of power in the hands of Xi Jinping as a necessary measure to address corruption.
"You do what is necessary to move the society in a way that will give the biggest number of people the better livelihood."
- This reflects a pragmatic view of governance, prioritizing societal stability and economic development over concerns about power concentration.