The Savings Expert “Do Not Buy A House!”, How To Turn £100 Into £1.5m Without Effort Morgan Housel

In this insightful conversation, Morgan Housel, author of "The Psychology of Money," delves into the profound relationship between people and wealth. He emphasizes that building wealth isn't just about earning money but understanding the psychology behind managing it. Housel shares compelling stories, including that of janitor Ronald Read, who amassed an $8 million fortune, illustrating that investment endurance, not genius, is key to financial success. He also discusses the pitfalls of success, such as overconfidence and complacency, and the importance of humility and endurance in both personal and financial growth. Housel's perspective on homeownership as a lifestyle choice rather than an investment strategy, and the significance of recognizing and embracing the costs associated with pursuing valuable life goals, offers a nuanced view of wealth and happiness.

• Morgan Housel is the author of "The Psychology of Money," a best-selling business book.
• The world is divided into those who don't know how to start making money and those who don't know when to stop.
• Opportunities for wealth generation are available to everyone, regardless of job or income level.
• Wealth can provide the freedom to choose where to live, what job to have, and when to retire.
• Examples of wealth accumulation include Ronald Read, a janitor who amassed $8 million, and Warren Buffett, worth $100 billion.
• The key to their success is investing, not necessarily having advanced skills or intelligence.
• Endurance in investing can lead to significant wealth.
• Many people confuse wanting to be a millionaire with wanting to spend a million dollars.
• It's important to assess one's relationship with money and manage expectations to maintain happiness.

"The world is split between people who don't know how to start making money and people who don't know when to stop making money. And if you are stuck in a low income job, you feel like you don't have the opportunity to generate wealth. But once you realize that opportunities are available for everybody, you can choose where you want to live, what job you want, when you retire, because you can be rich."

This quote emphasizes the dichotomy in society regarding financial understanding and ambition. It suggests that regardless of one's current financial situation, the potential for wealth creation exists for everyone, and it can lead to greater life choices and freedom.

• Morgan Housel writes for himself, approaching writing as a selfish act to solve his own problems.
• He does not aim to pander to an audience or write for a specific demographic.
• This approach to writing may lead to more genuine and introspective content that resonates with readers who seek authenticity.

"I just find it as selfish writing where I write for an audience of one, and that is me, and I like to think of myself as a pretty selfless person. But for writing, I don't try to say I'm going to write a book for this person or that person or that audience. I write what I'm interested in, and I write it in a way that I think is interesting, and I try to solve my own problems."

Housel's quote reveals his personal approach to writing, which is centered around self-reflection and addressing his own curiosities and challenges. This method may inadvertently create content that is relatable and helpful to others.

• Understanding the psychology of money can lead to introspection about personal desires and needs.
• The book aims to spark curiosity and encourage readers to reflect on their relationship with money.
• It is not about learning to pick stocks or manage finances but about understanding oneself and one's motivations.

"I hope that you will just look in the mirror and say, who am I? Which is kind of what I did with this, just trying to figure out who I am and what I want and why I was insecure, why I wanted to show off to other people the car that I drove."

Housel explains that his book aims to prompt readers to engage in self-reflection, to understand their motivations and insecurities, and to consider how these factors influence their financial behavior.

• Wealth is defined as unspent money, which can provide independence and autonomy.
• Being rich means having enough money to buy what you want, but wealth is about having the financial freedom to do what you want.
• Wealth is not visible like riches; it is the money saved, not spent on material possessions.
• The concept of wealth is closely tied to happiness and contentment, as it allows for control over one's life.

"Wealth, I think, is very different. Wealth is money that you did not spend and maybe you will not spend. So wealth is hidden. It's the money that you didn't spend on a car. It's the money that you didn't spend on a big house."

This quote differentiates between being rich and being wealthy, highlighting that wealth is not about the possessions one has but the money one chooses not to spend, providing a sense of security and freedom.

• Morgan Housel's parents were frugal, which allowed them to save money and achieve financial independence.
• Frugality can lead to greater happiness than material possessions by providing the freedom to retire early or change one's lifestyle.
• The desire to impress others with material wealth can lead to unhappiness and a lack of control over one's life.

"And the independence made him happier than any car would have done. Made him happier than any big house would have done. So it's like, I think that is one of the keys to happiness."

The quote suggests that financial independence, achieved through savings and frugality, can lead to greater happiness than the temporary satisfaction derived from expensive material goods.

• Autonomy and control over one's life are significant factors in happiness and physical health.
• High-stress jobs with low autonomy can lead to physical health issues and reduced life satisfaction.
• Financial freedom can alleviate stress and provide the ability to make life choices without constraints.

"There are not many other things in life that are going to increase the stress that you have than not having control over what you're doing in life."

Housel points out the negative impact of lacking control over one's life, emphasizing the importance of financial freedom in reducing stress and improving overall well-being.

• Lowering expectations can lead to increased happiness by reducing the pressure to achieve more.
• High expectations can lead to disappointment and a constant feeling of inadequacy, regardless of one's success.
• Managing expectations is more controllable than changing circumstances, and it can be a key to contentment.

"If your expectations rise faster than your income, you're never going to be happy with your money, no matter how much money you make."

Housel's quote illustrates the idea that happiness is not solely dependent on income but on the balance between what one earns and one's expectations.

• The desire to impress others with material possessions is a common societal behavior.
• Realizing that others are more focused on themselves than on you can reduce the urge to show off.
• Not needing to impress others is a valuable financial skill that can lead to greater savings and happiness.

"Nobody cares about your stuff as much as you do. Nobody cares about your car or your house or your clothes or your jewelry as much as you do."

This quote underscores the notion that the pursuit of material possessions for the sake of impressing others is ultimately futile, as people are generally more concerned with their own desires than with the possessions of others.

• People often exhibit reckless financial behavior when they have less money.
• The lack of money can lead to a focus on short-term gains and risky financial decisions.
• As financial stability increases, individuals often become more responsible and patient with their finances.

"I feel like the more money I have, the less my material desires are."

Housel shares his personal experience, noting that financial security can lead to a decrease in material desires and a more responsible approach to money management.

• Success and respect can be gained through various non-material means like business achievement, wisdom, love, and friendship.
• As people become more successful, their need to show off material possessions often decreases because they find fulfillment elsewhere.
• Material possessions can become a fallback for those who feel they lack other avenues to gain admiration or respect.

"So as you become more successful, your desire to show off diminishes because you're gaining respect and admiration through other things that are not material."

The quote explains that success in non-material aspects of life can reduce the need to display wealth through material possessions, as respect and admiration are fulfilled through other means.

• The poorest 10% of Americans purchase a disproportionate amount of lottery tickets, often despite financial hardship.
• This behavior may be criticized as irrational, but it can be understood as a pursuit of hope by those who feel trapped in their economic situation.
• The act of buying a lottery ticket provides a sense of possibility and a temporary escape from the limitations of poverty.

"And these are people who can barely feed themselves. Lowest 10%, they're literally struggling to put a roof over their head and feed themselves are going out hand over fist buying scratcher tickets."

This quote highlights the dire financial conditions of the poorest Americans, who still spend significantly on lottery tickets as a means of seeking hope.

• Feelings of being stuck in a lower economic position and perceiving the world as unfair can lead individuals to rationalize cheating or engaging in crime.
• The sense of unfairness in the world can prompt a mindset that justifies attempting to level the playing field through illicit means.

"I think there's a sense, too, that if you are stuck in a lower spot in life, if you have a feeling that the world is unfair, and very often it is, maybe that might be the right mindset."

The quote suggests that the perception of an unfair world can influence individuals in lower economic positions to consider cheating as a way to cope with their circumstances.

• The daily struggles of those in low-income jobs can make simple pleasures like cigarettes and alcohol a significant source of relief.
• The relationship between health and poverty is complex and often involves a cycle where immediate gratification is sought to mitigate daily hardships.
• Higher-income individuals may not fully understand the context that leads to unhealthy choices among the poor.

"If the only thing that day that gives you a little bit of pleasure is a cigarette and some alcohol, I get it."

This quote empathizes with the difficult choices faced by those in poverty, where short-term pleasures can offer a rare sense of relief amidst challenging circumstances.

• Savings can be seen as a means of gaining control over one's future, and accumulating savings is crucial for achieving independence.
• Financial independence, rather than material possessions, is key to reducing stress and improving quality of life.
• Control over finances allows for greater autonomy in life decisions, such as where to live and work, and provides security against unforeseen events.

"The ticket out is not a nicer car, it's not a bigger house, it's not better close. The ticket out is independence."

The quote emphasizes that true financial freedom comes from independence and control over one's life, rather than from acquiring material possessions.

• There are three types of people regarding savings: those who save, those who believe they can't save, and those who think they don't need to save.
• Individuals' attitudes towards saving can change over time, and it's not uncommon for someone to experience all three perspectives.

"There are three types of people. Those who save, those who don't think they can save, and those who don't think they need to save."

This quote categorizes people based on their approach to saving money, highlighting the different mindsets that influence financial behavior.

• Financial acumen may be influenced by both innate ability and learned behavior, with some individuals naturally possessing a 'money mind'.
• The balance between nature and nurture in financial matters is debated, but there is an acknowledgment that some aspects of financial intelligence may be inherent.

"I think a lot of money is nature."

The quote suggests that financial intelligence and behavior may be significantly influenced by innate characteristics rather than solely learned behaviors.

• Personal experiences, such as the loss of loved ones, can profoundly impact one's risk tolerance and financial decisions.
• Such events can lead to the realization that seemingly inconsequential decisions can have life-altering consequences, fostering a more cautious approach to risk.

"The one time I did it saved my entire life."

The quote reflects on a critical decision that had a significant impact on the speaker's life, illustrating how minor choices can have major outcomes.

• Many investors mistakenly believe they can predict future market movements, leading to potential financial losses.
• The most significant economic risks often come from unforeseen events, highlighting the difficulty of accurate financial forecasting.

"The biggest news story and the biggest risk over the next year or the next ten years of our life, whatever it is, is something that nobody's talking about today that you and I can't even fathom because it's always been like that."

The quote underscores the unpredictability of major economic events and the futility of trying to forecast them accurately.

• Financial preparedness involves creating a buffer to withstand unexpected events rather than trying to predict specific outcomes.
• Maintaining a conservative amount of cash and avoiding debt can provide security against unforeseen risks.

"Invest in preparedness, not in prediction."

The quote advises focusing on building resilience in one's financial life rather than attempting to predict future market movements.

• A simple and conservative investment approach can be effective, focusing on cash, real estate, index funds, and a few select investments.
• Prioritizing simplicity in one's investment strategy can lead to peace of mind and reduce the complexity of managing finances.

"My entire net worth is cash, a house and index funds and some shares of Markel where I'm on the board of directors. And that's it."

The quote outlines a straightforward and focused investment strategy that emphasizes simplicity and broad market exposure.

• Index funds allow investors to own a diversified slice of the economy, and dollar-cost averaging is a method of consistently investing over time.
• Long-term, consistent investment strategies like dollar-cost averaging into index funds can lead to significant wealth accumulation.

"99% of Warren Buffett's net worth was accumulated after his 60th birthday."

The quote provides a powerful example of how long-term investment and compounding can result in substantial wealth growth over time.

• Personal definitions of a 'rich life' vary and should be based on individual desires rather than societal expectations.
• Recognizing when one has enough is a personal journey that involves understanding what truly brings happiness and fulfillment.

"You need to learn how to live a rich life and figure out what that is for you."

The quote encourages individuals to define their own version of a rich life, rather than conforming to societal standards of wealth and success.

• The biggest regret of the dying is not living a life true to themselves and working too much.
• This regret is realized too late to make any changes, highlighting the importance of reflection on life choices.
• The conversation prompts a consideration of future regrets and the value of hard work versus personal fulfillment.

"ect on the brony wear, wasn't it who interviewed people on their deathbeds and found out that the biggest regret of the dying was not living a life true to themselves, working too much, et cetera. But that's on your deathbed. There's nothing you can do at that point, right?"

The quote emphasizes the common regrets of those nearing the end of life, particularly not living authentically and overworking, underscoring the importance of introspection on one's life path and priorities.

• Morgan Housel does not anticipate regretting hard work and saving money, but rather finds satisfaction in providing for his family.
• He contrasts the pleasure of financial security for loved ones with the potential regret of failing to provide.
• Housel challenges the assumption that saving and frugality will lead to regret, asserting that his family's well-being is his priority.

"And my answer is absolutely not. It would give me so much pleasure to know that my wife and my two young kids are going to be fine."

Morgan Housel expresses that he would not regret working hard and saving money, as it would ensure the well-being of his family, which is a source of happiness for him.

• The discussion includes a book recommendation, "Die with Zero," which advises giving money to loved ones during their time of need rather than posthumously.
• The concept emphasizes the impact of financial gifts when they can be most beneficial, challenging traditional inheritance practices.

"Don't make your kids wait or like, hope you're going to die so they can get their inheritance. Give it to them when it really matters, which for most people is in their."

The quote from Morgan Housel reflects on the timing of financial generosity, advocating for providing support to loved ones when it is most impactful, rather than delaying until one's death.

• The conversation shifts to the dilemma of providing financial support to children versus encouraging their independence.
• The speakers debate the merits of experiencing economy class travel and other less luxurious circumstances to appreciate value and avoid entitlement.
• They discuss the potential negative consequences of spoiling children with luxury experiences prematurely.

"You see how quickly somebody can be spoiled or use that to try to show other people that they are superior to them."

Morgan Housel shares a personal anecdote about his son's reaction to flying first class, illustrating how such experiences can quickly lead to a sense of entitlement and a desire to flaunt perceived superiority.

• The speakers explore the impact of wealth on children's ambition, referencing a conversation between Charlie Munger and a wealthy individual.
• They acknowledge the tension between potentially diminishing a child's drive and the risk of damaging relationships by withholding financial support.
• The discussion highlights the individual nature of each child's response to wealth and the challenges parents face in navigating these decisions.

"And Charlie says, because if you don't, your kids will hate you."

Morgan Housel cites Charlie Munger's blunt assessment of the need to financially support one's children, despite the potential negative effects on their ambition, to maintain a positive relationship.

• The speakers differentiate between the skills needed to make money and those required to keep it, with endurance and patience being key for investing.
• They discuss the rarity of good investment opportunities and the importance of recognizing and seizing them infrequently.
• Warren Buffett's investing strategy of accumulating cash and waiting for the right moment to invest is highlighted as a model of patience and discipline.

"Endurance and patience is 99% of what you need as an investor, because the opportunities there to invest in a low cost index fund are available for everybody."

Morgan Housel emphasizes the crucial role of endurance and patience in investing, pointing out that opportunities for sound investments, such as low-cost index funds, are accessible to all.

• Housel advises young adults to seek financial flexibility and liquidity early in their careers to cope with life's uncertainties.
• He recommends choosing unconventional jobs over safe, predictable paths to gain unique experiences and potentially greater rewards.
• The discussion suggests that early career risks can lead to significant learning opportunities, whether through success or failure.

"Go for the weird company. Why go for something crazy? Because when you're older, when you're 40 and you have two kids and a mortgage, you're not going to want to take the weird job."

Morgan Housel encourages young adults to pursue unconventional career paths that offer unique learning experiences and the potential for significant growth, which may not be feasible later in life due to increased responsibilities.

• The concept of "tails," where a few key events or decisions disproportionately influence outcomes, is discussed in the context of investing and life.
• The speakers highlight the statistical distribution in venture capital investments, where a small number of successes can offset numerous failures.
• The conversation extends the principle of tails to various aspects of life, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and capitalizing on significant opportunities.

"Tails, where just a couple of things that happen explain 90 or 99% of what matters. It's always the case."

Morgan Housel explains the concept of "tails," emphasizing how a small number of events or decisions can have an outsized impact on overall outcomes, a principle applicable to both investing and broader life contexts.

• The speakers reflect on the value of humility in financial decision-making, recognizing the limits of one's knowledge and the unpredictability of the future.
• They critique the false confidence of investment forecasts, likening them to horoscopes that provide comfort but lack substance.
• The conversation acknowledges the human desire for certainty and the appeal of confident predictions, despite their inherent unreliability.

"Because it's comforting. What a lot of people want out of their investing forecasts, or whatever it is, is they want to reduce the uncertainty that's giving them stress."

Morgan Housel discusses the psychological comfort that investment forecasts provide, despite their lack of reliability, as people seek to alleviate the stress of uncertainty about the future.

• The speakers discuss the paradoxical role of failure in driving innovation and success, using examples from Amazon and Spotify.
• They note that a high rate of failure can indicate a healthy appetite for risk and a commitment to experimentation.
• The conversation suggests that embracing failure and learning from it is crucial for long-term success and maintaining a growth mindset.

"If you can fail well, and have the mentality to fail and the financial backing to be able to fail, like, make sure your bets are not that big, and you can just keep taking little risks all the time."

Morgan Housel highlights the importance of being able to fail well, suggesting that a mindset of resilience and the capacity to take calculated risks are foundational to achieving success.

• Success can lead to complacency and a departure from the factors that originally drove competitive advantage.
• The speakers discuss the necessity of continuous effort and adaptation to maintain success in a rapidly changing world.
• They explore the psychological and strategic challenges of staying motivated and avoiding the pitfalls of past correctness and laziness.

"Success has its own gravity."

Morgan Housel uses the metaphor of gravity to describe how success can lead to complacency and a pull away from the very behaviors that led to that success, emphasizing the need for continuous effort and vigilance.

• The conversation delves into the motivations of billionaires, exploring the relationship between wealth, ambition, and happiness.
• The speakers consider whether extreme wealth leads to happiness or if it results in a tortured existence driven by insatiable challenges.
• They reflect on the idea that for some individuals, the pursuit of ever-greater challenges is a fundamental aspect of their character and success.

"I think most people in that situation, the word that I would use is tortured. I think they wake up every morning tortured at the problems that they are aspiring to solve, that they haven't solved yet."

Morgan Housel suggests that for many highly successful individuals, their relentless pursuit of challenges may lead to a sense of being psychologically tortured rather than content or happy.

• Morgan Housel discusses the life of a person who was highly skilled at making money but ultimately failed at retaining it.
• This individual went bankrupt four times despite being equivalent to a billionaire.
• The more success and wealth he achieved, the greater risks he took, leading to his downfall.
• This pattern of behavior is common among people whose confidence grows with success, often outstripping their abilities.
• The lack of self-awareness and the absence of critical feedback from others contribute to the overconfidence.

"So he was the person who was better at anyone in the world at making money and had no skill whatsoever at keeping money."

This quote highlights the individual's exceptional ability to generate wealth but also his complete lack of skill in managing and preserving it.

• Success often inflates confidence more than ability, leading to potential failure.
• Wealthy individuals may not receive honest feedback due to their status, exacerbating overconfidence.
• Historical examples, such as Roman warriors, illustrate the importance of humility.
• Having a partner or advisor to provide critical feedback is crucial for maintaining perspective and avoiding pitfalls.
• The discussion pivots to Charlie Munger's role in Warren Buffett's decision-making.

"A lot of it, yeah. And I think that's so much of it. And I think you have to go out of your way sometimes for that humility..."

Morgan Housel emphasizes that humility is a significant factor in managing success and that it sometimes requires a conscious effort to maintain.

• Saving money is a form of protection against the possibility of being wrong in the future.
• Planning for the end of one's career with gratitude and financial preparedness is a form of humility.
• Denzel Washington's advice to Will Smith highlights the risks of overconfidence at the peak of one's career.
• Real humility acknowledges one's achievements while recognizing one's fallibility.

"I often think about that, like, whenever the curtain comes down on my career, I want to make sure that I can say, like, hey, thank you for letting me have this. I'm so grateful for it."

Morgan Housel reflects on the importance of being grateful for one's career and ensuring financial security for the future.

• Success comes with various costs, such as enduring volatility, long work hours, and personal compromises.
• These costs are not always quantifiable but are necessary for achieving and maintaining success.
• Understanding and being willing to pay these costs is integral to success in investing, careers, and relationships.
• The discussion includes the concept of time horizons and their relevance to individual goals and planning.

"There's always a cost for anything good in life. There's a cost that you have to pay."

Morgan Housel explains that success in any area of life requires accepting and dealing with inherent costs.

• Personal experiences and changing life circumstances can significantly influence the decision to rent or buy a home.
• Buying a house should not be viewed primarily as a financial investment but as a lifestyle choice.
• The historical performance of housing markets suggests that expecting significant financial returns from home ownership may be misguided.
• The importance of making decisions based on personal needs rather than potential financial gains is emphasized.

"If I ended up losing money on it, I don't think I'd care. That's not why I'm owning it. I'm owning it just because I want the stability for my family."

Morgan Housel shares his perspective on home ownership, emphasizing the value of stability over potential financial gains.

• Storytelling is a compelling way to communicate and remember ideas.
• The effectiveness of storytelling lies in its ability to simplify and make memorable complex information.
• Dangerous stories are those that tell people what they want to hear, regardless of their veracity.
• The discussion explores how storytelling can influence beliefs and behaviors, using examples from politics and public health.

"Massively popular because he's probably the greatest storyteller of our time."

Morgan Housel acknowledges the power of storytelling in making even well-known information engaging and memorable.

• Compounding can have both positive and negative effects over time.
• The human brain struggles with exponential thinking, which leads to underestimating the impact of compounding.
• The concept of compounding is crucial to understanding the potential long-term consequences of decisions and behaviors.

"Because it's so counterintuitive that 99% of Warren Buffett's net worth came after he was 60 years old."

Morgan Housel uses Warren Buffett's wealth accumulation as an example to illustrate the non-intuitive nature of compounding returns.

• Stressful and uncomfortable experiences can lead to significant personal and societal progress.
• Historical events like wars have spurred technological advancements and societal changes.
• Personal hardships can also result in growth and positive transformations.
• The idea that challenges and discomfort are inherent parts of pursuing worthwhile goals is discussed.

"That's when the magic happens, is when things get really tough."

Morgan Housel discusses how difficult situations can lead to breakthroughs and positive change, both on a personal and a global scale.

• The conversation concludes with thoughts on wealth creation and the value of introspection.
• The books discussed offer insights rather than direct advice, encouraging readers to think about their own lives and make personalized decisions.
• The importance of understanding oneself and one's capabilities is emphasized.

"I hope it gets you thinking about what you want and who you are and what you are capable of, what you're not capable of."

Morgan Housel expresses his hope that his books will prompt readers to reflect on their own lives and make informed decisions based on self-awareness.

• Morgan Housel shares his personal experience with mild depression and anxiety.
• He reflects on the time spent worrying about unlikely scenarios and acknowledges the potential benefits of a certain level of worry.
• The conversation touches on the balance between concern for safety and the unnecessary stress of worrying about improbable events.

"I could have been happier than I was if I had accepted a certain level of just telling myself it's going to be okay."

Morgan Housel contemplates how acknowledging the likelihood of positive outcomes could have led to greater happiness throughout his life.