Taylor Swift Historians Investigate Her Insane JOEVER Playlists... 🐍 Evolution of a Snake Podcast

Summary notes created by Deciphr AI

Summary Notes


In this episode of "The Evolution of a Snake," hosts delve into Taylor Swift's curated playlists, dissecting the fan theory about the five stages of grief and its connection to Swift's work. They discuss Taylor's acknowledgment of the theory and her playful engagement with it, despite the album not being about grief. The conversation highlights Swift's intricate songwriting, the inclusion of Joe Alwyn co-written songs in the playlists, and the hosts' consistent opinions on Swift's narrative. They also touch on the importance of Swift's Patreon for exclusive content and tease the upcoming "Torture Poets Department." The hosts analyze specific tracks like "Lavender Haze," "Sweet Nothing," and "Snow on the Beach," speculating on their deeper meanings and connections to Swift's personal life, particularly her relationship with Alwyn. They suggest that Swift's songs often reflect a struggle for a normal life versus fame and express anticipation for her new album, "Tortured Poets," to reveal more truths.

Summary Notes

Taylor's Playlists and Fan Theories

  • Taylor's newly released playlists are tied to a fan theory about the five stages of grief.
  • The playlists are seen as a playful response to the fan theory, not an album concept.
  • Taylor's decision to engage with the theory has intrigued fans and sparked analysis.

"if you read the description for the playlist it clearly says that Taylor was inspired by the fan Theory and she decided to play along this the album is not about the five stages of grief."

The quote explains that Taylor acknowledged a fan theory and engaged with it through her playlists, but this does not mean her album is actually about the five stages of grief.

Inclusion of Specific Songs

  • Every song co-written by Joe is included in the playlists.
  • Fans speculate on the inclusion and meaning behind songs like "Betty" and "Lavender Haze."
  • The inclusion of songs seems to reflect personal aspects of Taylor's relationship with Joe.

"every single song that Joe has a co-write on is on one of these playlists and they didn't all have to be."

This quote indicates that all songs co-written by Joe are present in the playlists, suggesting a deliberate choice by Taylor, which may hint at their personal significance.

Interpretation of "Lavender Haze"

  • "Lavender Haze" is interpreted as a desire to return to an initial romantic phase.
  • The song reflects a yearning for the past and a critique of Joe's non-communicative behavior.
  • Fans see "Lavender Haze" as emblematic of the confusion and denial present in the album "Midnights."

"Lavender Haze is one of those songs that like to me it's almost like she's saying I wish that I could go back to that like delusional romantic place that we were in when we first got together."

The quote suggests that "Lavender Haze" is about longing for the past and the initial stages of a romantic relationship, highlighting a sense of denial about the present.

Analysis of "Snow on the Beach"

  • "Snow on the Beach" is considered a vague song with unclear connections to Taylor's life.
  • The song may relate to the early days of Taylor and Joe's relationship.
  • Fans debate the song's significance and placement on the playlist.

"snow on the beach to me is a complete nothing song I don't think it's about Joe first of all she's talking about green eyes who has green eyes it's not Mr Joe."

This quote reflects the confusion around the song "Snow on the Beach," questioning its relevance to Taylor's relationship with Joe due to the mention of green eyes, which Joe does not have.

Reflections on "Sweet Nothing"

  • "Sweet Nothing" is seen as a nostalgic reflection on the positive aspects of Taylor's relationship with Joe.
  • The song captures the dichotomy of wanting to hold onto the good while recognizing the end.
  • The pandemic is identified as a turning point in Taylor's realization about her relationship and career desires.

"Sweet Nothing is her Reminiscing on the good parts of her relationship when in the back of her mind she knew that it was over."

The quote interprets "Sweet Nothing" as a bittersweet recollection of a relationship that is internally acknowledged as finished, despite outward appearances.

Insights into "Glitch"

  • "Glitch" is speculated to be about an early indiscretion in Taylor's relationship or an infatuation with Matty Healey.
  • The song fits into the denial theme of the playlist, focusing on getting caught up in an idea.
  • The song's placement on the playlist is seen as deliberate, reflecting the early stages of a relationship.

"I think glitch this was a very sexy song this song is like Very sensual even down to the production I think that it ties perfectly into the playlist and that this is her getting caught up in this idea of like this glitch this thing that she can't get out of her head that's kind of like what the song is about."

This quote suggests that "Glitch" represents an obsession or fixation that aligns with the theme of denial, highlighting the sensual nature of the song.

Controversy over "Betty"

  • "Betty" is included on a playlist about denial, which confuses fans due to its seemingly innocent narrative.
  • The song's inclusion may be due to its co-writing credit with Joe or its deeper meaning about regret and mistakes.
  • Fans question the motives behind placing "Betty" in the context of denial.

"Betty really confounds me here because it's like what the [ __ ] are you talking about this is a LT of songs about getting so caught up in the idea of something that you have a hard time seeing the red flags and it's like I thought Betty was a cutesy little love song that you wrote about a love triangle between non-existent kids named after Ry like Blake Lively and Ryan re you're still telling that story on the stage every night."

The quote expresses confusion over the inclusion of "Betty" on a playlist about denial, questioning the narrative Taylor has presented about the song and its deeper implications.

Armchair Analysis

  • Taylor and Madeline discuss their armchair analysis style, emphasizing fun and seas over strict accuracy.
  • They acknowledge that their approach may not be for everyone but stand by their style.
  • The podcast is a space for speculation and interpretation, rather than claiming to hold the absolute truth.

"We do armchair analysis here; we don't claim to know the truth even though we absolutely do know the truth um that is just the way that we rock."

The quote highlights the playful and confident nature of their analysis, acknowledging it as their unique style of engaging with content.

Willow Lyrics Analysis

  • Taylor finds new meaning in the lyrics of "Willow," feeling compelled by the lines about following and begging.
  • They interpret the lyrics as a reflection of a deep-seated pattern of needing to be in a relationship during times of struggle.
  • The discussion suggests that the protagonist of the song, presumably Taylor Swift, is convinced to want something that isn't truly for her.

"The more that you say the less I know wherever you stray I follow I'm begging for you to take my hands wreck my plans that's my man."

This quote is analyzed as a desire for companionship and guidance, even if it leads to self-deception and abandoning one's own plans.

Relationship Dynamics in "Willow"

  • The lyrics suggest a dynamic where the protagonist doesn't need saving but desires to be whisked away.
  • They discuss how this reflects a pattern of seeking growth through relationships.
  • The analysis implies that the protagonist was influenced by their partner's perspective on life, leading to confusion and a willingness to abandon personal plans.

"You don't need to save me but would you run away with me...he did need to save her that we all know that she was lying to herself there."

The quote is interpreted as an internal contradiction where the protagonist claims independence but subconsciously seeks salvation through a partner.

"Willow" as a Reflection of Past Relationships

  • Taylor and Madeline explore how "Willow" connects to past songs and albums, noting a pattern of begging and dependency.
  • They discuss the significance of "Willow" being placed before "Lover" in a playlist, suggesting a thematic connection.
  • The conversation highlights a recurring theme of the protagonist needing to be in a relationship and the desire for escapism.

"Well I I think he knows he better lock it down or I will stick around good ones never wait...that's somebody who's literally begging on our hands and knees. Willow."

This quote is seen as evidence of the protagonist's desperation to secure a relationship, reinforcing the theme of dependency discussed throughout the analysis.

Dark Sided Themes in "Willow"

  • The podcasters describe "Willow" as having dark, delusional aspects.
  • They suggest that the song's lyrics reflect a tumultuous relationship filled with manipulation and psychological games.
  • Taylor and Madeline reference the concept of a "drama triangle," with roles of victim, rescuer, and persecutor.

"It's dark sided it's dark sided it's delusional."

The quote summarizes their view of the underlying themes in "Willow," emphasizing the negative psychological patterns present in the lyrics.

"Cruel Summer" and the Burden of Secrecy

  • "Cruel Summer" is dissected as a song that initially appears fun but reveals a deeper misery.
  • The lyrics convey the strain of maintaining a secret relationship and the emotional toll it takes.
  • The podcasters argue that secrecy in a relationship should not feel burdensome, contrasting the song's upbeat production with its darker lyrical content.

"I'm drunk in the back of the car and I cried like a baby coming home from the bar...it's not a joke."

This quote is used to illustrate the protagonist's inner turmoil and the contrast between outward appearances and internal struggles.

"Lover" as a Delusion

  • The discussion on "Lover" suggests that the song was intended as a love song but may contain subconscious red flags.
  • They explore the possibility that the protagonist's trust issues and possessiveness are hinted at in the lyrics.
  • Taylor and Madeline speculate on whether the song's romantic sentiments were genuine or a product of delusion.

"I'm highly suspicious that everyone who sees you wants you...is that because you he your boyfriend was a card shark playing games and leading you on?"

The quote is examined as a potential sign of insecurity and mistrust within the relationship, which may have been overlooked by the protagonist at the time.

"Miss Americana & The Heartbreak Prince" and Political Allegory

  • The song is analyzed as an allegory, with potential connections to the protagonist's personal life and political awareness.
  • They discuss how the song reflects the isolation foundational to the protagonist's relationship and its political undertones.
  • The podcasters consider the implications of the protagonist's relationships being characterized by strife and drama.

"It's you and me that's my whole World also she kind of Likens it to political strife...it's you and me again this this reinforces that isolation was the foundation of their relationship."

This quote is dissected to show how the protagonist's relationship dynamics are intertwined with her political awakening and the challenges of navigating public scrutiny.

"Exile" and Relationship Breakdown

  • "Exile" is discussed as a song that captures the shock and pain of a relationship's sudden end.
  • The podcasters analyze the lyrics as indicative of one partner feeling blindsided while the other had been signaling the end for some time.
  • They suggest that the song reflects a pattern of the protagonist swiftly deciding to end relationships once a breaking point is reached.

"It took you five whole minutes to pack us up and leave me in it...you couldn't admit that we were sick."

The quote is interpreted as highlighting the disconnect between the partners' perceptions of the relationship's health and the protagonist's decisive nature in ending it.

Taylor's Attempts to Leave

  • Taylor has made multiple attempts to leave a relationship.
  • These attempts occurred on Cornelius Street, during the song "Renegade," and possibly in "Exile."
  • "Exile" might be a reflection on the past rather than a current desire to leave.

"Taylor I think Taylor tried to leave a couple of times actually that's what I've gotten when I've been going through she tried to leave on Cornelius Street she tried to leave on Renegade and I think she also tried to leave on exile uh but Exile could be like Reminiscing on an earlier time."

The explanation of the quote reflects on Taylor's repeated efforts to exit a relationship at various points in time, as understood through the analysis of her songs.

Elicit Affairs and Mental Illness

  • "Elicit Affairs" is perceived as a silly song with no deeper meaning to discover.
  • The song is characterized by anger and a clear message to not be patronized.
  • Discussion moves to mental illness, indicating a serious turn in the conversation.

"then we go into elicit of Ferris why not why not she was just being silly there. that's I don't think there's any jover to be discovered there it is an angry song I mean don't call me kid don't call me baby so absolutely don't do that bit never do. that never do tolerate. it. okay mental illness time I knew it that's what I'm going to say I knew it she tried to she tried to tell me."

This quote transitions from discussing the song "Elicit Affairs" to a serious topic of mental illness, suggesting a shift in the tone of the conversation and the complexity of the themes being explored.

Age Gap Relationship and Pandemic Impact

  • The relationship discussed is framed through the prism of an age gap.
  • Taylor's music and feelings are consistent with the overarching theme of the relationship.
  • The pandemic had a significant impact on Taylor's activities and her relationship.

"obviously it's written through the prism of an age gap relationship of course. but again that's just a construct we were in a fictional moment in her career the feelings on this are very consistent with the rest of the jover thing the thing that really uh struck me was the bridge while you were out building other worlds where was I where's. that me blah blah. blah Joe was filming a lot during the pandemic he like finally had some work and he was like away. and she was like flying to visit him while like kind of not really doing anything not really promoting folkore and evermore because they were like done and out and that was during the pandemic blah."

The quote discusses how Taylor's music reflects an age gap relationship and how the pandemic influenced Taylor's activities and her relationship with Joe, who was busy filming.

Taylor's Sacrifices and Assumptions in the Relationship

  • Taylor expresses having made significant sacrifices for the relationship, including moving to London.
  • She feels taken for granted and that her emotional state is not acknowledged.
  • The relationship dynamics are further complicated by the inability to openly discuss their struggles.

"so I gave you my temple my mural my sky. I uprooted my life I left New York left a part of me back in New York and I flew my ass to London and now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life. so what's going on babe why are you just doing this to me you assume I'm fine that's the other thing again my face was gray. but we couldn't admit that we were sick you assume I'm fine you bury your head in the sand."

This quote captures Taylor's feelings of having made personal sacrifices for the relationship and her frustration with being overlooked and not having her emotional struggles recognized or addressed.

Pandemic Influence on 'Tolerate It'

  • "Tolerate It" is interpreted through the lens of the pandemic, highlighting feelings of proximity yet emotional distance.
  • The pandemic context amplifies the sense of desperation and bargaining in relationships.
  • Taylor's placement of songs on her albums, particularly track five, is seen as significant and intentional.

"thinking about tolerated oh thinking about like tolerate it through the lenss of the pandemic all the things that she says I sit and watch you reading with your head low I awake and watch you breathing with your eyes closed. I I polish all the plates I do all these things and these are very like hom steady we're at home all the time but even though we're together and we're at home it feels like you're a million miles away."

The explanation of the quote highlights how the pandemic has influenced the interpretation of "Tolerate It," revealing the emotional disconnect felt despite physical closeness and the sense of bargaining within the relationship.

The 'I Am Allowed to Cry' Playlist

  • The playlist explores themes of bargaining, desperation, and intuition about the potential outcomes of a relationship.
  • Taylor's song selection reflects various stages of emotion, including the bargaining phase.
  • The playlist's opening with "The Great War" suggests a theme of fake resolution and delusion.

"this playlist takes you through the songs that I've written when I was in the bargaining stage times when you know you're trying to make deals with yourself or someone that you care about you're trying to make things better you're often times feeling really desperate because often times we have a sort of gut intuition that tells us things are not going to go the way that we hope which makes us more desperate which makes us bargain more."

The quote describes the purpose of the 'I Am Allowed to Cry' playlist, which is to take the listener through songs that encapsulate the bargaining stage of a relationship, characterized by desperation and the attempt to negotiate for a better outcome despite intuition suggesting otherwise.

Unhealthy Relationship Dynamics in 'Afterglow'

  • "Afterglow" is about the cycle of fighting and making up in an unhealthy relationship.
  • Taylor tends to blame herself for the issues in the relationship.
  • There is a pattern of not being able to openly discuss the true nature of the relationship problems.

"Afterglow which makes so much sense to me meet me in the Afterglow that song is literally about you know when you're in like kind of an unhealthy relationship and every fight that you make it through without breaking up you're like. yes yes we didn't break up congratulations to us when really it's like no girls you should probably break up like if you're having a huge fight every 5 Seconds like maybe it's time that you just call it quits she is putting a lot of the blame on herself here I'm seeing that bargaining coming into it's all me. it's in my head I'm the one that burned it down I'm so sorry."

This quote analyzes "Afterglow" as a representation of the toxic cycle present in an unhealthy relationship, where Taylor often takes the blame for conflicts and there is a lack of honest communication about deeper issues.

Taylor's Writing and Relationship with Joe

  • Taylor's songwriting reflects her need to defend herself within the relationship.
  • The relationship dynamics suggest a lack of mutual understanding and communication.
  • Taylor's music suggests she has tried to use the relationship with Joe to heal from past traumas.

"I do I really wonder like if she couldn't even be honest enough with herself to write songs about what was really going on which is why she's so excited for tortured poets to come out because if you think about it like any song she plays Joe's going to hear so not only do she have to consider like what might he not like going out to the public she also has to consider what might he not like to hear about himself because he is painted in a very flattering way in most of these songs even on songs like Maroon which are like kind of about like it being over she is Greatful for it midnight rain I broke his heart because he was nice I feel like the claws are out and the the armor has dropped and we're now going to get some real juice."

The explanation of the quote delves into the complexities of Taylor's songwriting process, her relationship with Joe, and her anticipation for the release of "Tortured Poets," suggesting that her music is a means of processing and communicating her feelings within the constraints of the relationship.

Reflection on 'Peace' and Relationship Struggles

  • "Peace" is a song that has sparked controversy due to its themes of bargaining and proving oneself within the relationship.
  • The song reflects Taylor's constant effort to justify her love and the unequal dynamic in her relationship with Joe.
  • The lyrics suggest Taylor would make significant sacrifices for Joe, highlighting the depth of her feelings.

"but something that really has been irking me about thinking about the song Through the lens of bargaining is when she says give you my wild give you a child I don't like that I have a response for you I have a response for you if you'd like to hear it my interpretation of that is in in my okay in my head this is pure speculation in my head Taylor has not really seriously considered having a child with anyone at any point because her career has been so go go go she's very clearly focused on that goal who's to say what she really wants she's mentioned having children before. but she's never been like I'm GNA have them at this time with this person or whatever my interpretation of this is she is talking about all the things that she can't give Joe like she can't give him his main fundamental ask which is privacy and a normal relationship she's like I I literally can't give that to you the rain is going to going to come when you're standing with me. but you know I love you so much that I would give you my child as in I don't think she's saying that in a way where she's like I love you so much that we'll have a child together. she's saying I would sacrifice my career or whatever it is to have a child if that's what you wanted because I love you so much that's why rings as bargaining to me."

This quote interprets the lyrics of "Peace" as a reflection of Taylor's willingness to make personal sacrifices for her relationship with Joe, despite the inherent challenges and imbalances in their dynamic. It suggests a deep level of commitment and bargaining on Taylor's part to maintain the relationship.

Songs Reflecting Mental Illness and Relationship Dynamics

  • Songs like "This is Me Trying" are directly related to mental illness.
  • Taylor's music often explores the theme of trying to heal from past wounds within the context of her relationship with Joe.
  • The relationship seems to have been built on a dynamic of Taylor needing to be saved, which becomes problematic when the need dissipates.

"other mentally ill songs here this is me trying I mean that literally is a mental ill song um. but I don't know if that has anything to do with jover. I think also everybody was kind of like going through it with the pandemic so that kind of probably inspired a little bit of that the Archer cornelus Street and death by a Thousand Cuts she crazy there was a psychic wound in her that formed during reputation that she tried to fix with Joe like she tried to get Joe to make her feel better about being torn apart by the world and made into nothing she thought that Joe could fix that for her and even when she was in the middle of their relationship she still couldn't The Archers an anxious song Help Me Hold On To You."

The quote discusses how Taylor's songs often deal with mental illness and the ongoing struggle to heal from past emotional trauma. It suggests that her relationship with Joe was initially seen as a source of healing, but that reliance on Joe may have created a problematic dynamic as Taylor worked through her issues.

Relationship Breakups and Song Connections

  • Speculation exists about the number of times Taylor and Joe may have broken up.
  • The sequencing of songs on Taylor's albums suggests different stages of relationship struggles.
  • Songs like "Cornelia Street" and "Death by a Thousand Cuts" may represent times when Taylor was close to leaving the relationship.

"I really am curious to know how many times they actually like had like a breakup like a break and like separate is it that she's writing about all the one time I feel like on lover probably there was one particular trying time but to me it feels like there's distance between things like false god and Afterglow and cornelus Street and death by a Thousand Cuts those two songs feel like they were in they were almost sequenced together like they happened sequentially but false god and Afterglow seemed to me about more domestic interruptions rather than like it's the beginning and we're fragile right."

This quote expresses curiosity about the frequency of breakups between Taylor and Joe and how Taylor's song sequencing may reflect different moments of relationship tension, with some songs suggesting imminent departures and others dealing with ongoing domestic issues.

Interpretation of "Bigger Than the Whole Sky"

  • The song is perceived as being about grief in general, not specifically about a person named Joe.
  • The playlist it's included in is themed around the five stages of grief, indicating a broader theme beyond relationship grief.
  • "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" is associated with an experience of profound grief.

"Bigger than the whole sky is really interesting song I've always just kind of read bigger than the whole guy to be about grief in general I've never never thought that it's about Joe it's like too that either I don't dare to speculate about what she's talking about."

The quote explains that the speaker, Taylor, interprets the song as addressing a general sense of grief rather than being about a specific individual, Joe. It highlights the reluctance to speculate on the exact nature of the grief being expressed.

Placement of "Hoax" in the Grief Stages

  • "Hoax" is debated as potentially belonging to a different stage of grief or even a separate playlist.
  • It is associated with acceptance, finality, and a sense of hopelessness rather than anger.
  • The song reflects a resigned acceptance of a situation, indicated by the lyrics about not wanting any other sadness.

"Hoax doesn't belong on this one it belongs elsewhere say that why should be saying it anger you think it belongs in Anger. no I honestly think it it belongs on I can do. oh wow."

Taylor suggests that "Hoax" might be more appropriately categorized under a different stage of grief or playlist, challenging its association with anger and instead seeing it as a form of acceptance.

Analysis of "Dear Reader"

  • "Dear Reader" is seen as an indication of the artist being in a personal crisis.
  • The song closes the record "Midnights" on a notably sad note, contradicting the diverse and upbeat perception of the album.
  • The song's lyrics suggest the artist is struggling with her own identity and ability to be a role model.

"Dear reader really I can't believe she put that song out. I it's really crazy and and that song says I'm in crisis actively and everybody just kind of was like. okay she ended midnights with it technically if you consider 3:. a.m. Edition as the full version of midnights um the it closes the record and everybody said wow."

Madeline expresses surprise at the release of "Dear Reader," interpreting the song's message as the artist being in an active crisis, which contrasts with the general reception of the album's ending.

Speculation on Joe and Taylor's Relationship

  • There is speculation about Joe's influence on Taylor's music and the dynamic of their relationship.
  • Comparisons are drawn between Joe and Jake Gyllenhaal, suggesting a pattern of power imbalance in Taylor's relationships.
  • "You're Losing Me" is interpreted as a song that reflects a relationship in its final stages, with a plea for salvaging it.

"I think the other reason why that like we and like maybe some other people were so resistant to these these songs being about Joe and like her referencing Joe is because to do so would be going onto the gayer pipeline like."

The conversation touches on the reluctance to associate certain songs with Joe due to the implications it would have for interpreting Taylor's personal life and relationship dynamics.

Interpretation of "Midnight Rain" and Other Songs

  • There is a belief that "Midnight Rain" and other songs reflect Taylor's acceptance of her fame and the impossibility of a normal life with Joe.
  • The discussion suggests that Taylor prioritizes her artistry and career over romantic relationships.
  • The songs are analyzed for their thematic connections to loss, heartbreak, and the process of moving on.

"I think that she could only gaze in at that life through the window. and she finally realized that and that's kind of also. I think it wasn't something that she wanted there's no point wanting something you can never have or like chasing something you can never have."

Taylor and Madeline discuss how "Midnight Rain" may represent Taylor's realization that she cannot have a normal life like Joe's and her acceptance of her own path as an artist and public figure.

Reflection on Taylor's Growth and Acceptance

  • "Your On Your Own Kid" is seen as a declaration of independence and self-reliance, marking a significant point in Taylor's personal growth.
  • The discussion highlights Taylor's journey from seeking validation through relationships to finding strength within herself.
  • The playlist "I Can Do It with a Broken Heart" symbolizes a turning point towards acceptance and making room for positive changes.

"Your on your own kid to me was kind of like her finally being like. all right well I don't need a man in a more profound way being like actually at the end of the day I've always just had myself and I've always been fine."

This quote from Taylor indicates a shift in perspective, where she acknowledges her own resilience and independence, moving away from the notion that she needs a romantic partner to be complete.

What others are sharing

Go To Library

Want to Deciphr in private?
- It's completely free

Deciphr Now
Footer background
Crossed lines icon
Crossed lines icon
Crossed lines icon
Crossed lines icon
Crossed lines icon
Crossed lines icon
Crossed lines icon

© 2024 Deciphr

Terms and ConditionsPrivacy Policy