Joe Rogan Experience #2388 - Lionel Richie

In a candid conversation with Joe Rogan, Lionel Richie reflects on his storied career, from his early days with the Commodores to his solo success. Richie discusses the challenges of encapsulating his life in a book, emphasizing the importance of resilience and humor in overcoming life's punches. He shares insights into the music industry's evolution and the pressures of fame, recounting experiences with icons like Michael Jackson and Marvin Gaye. Richie highlights the significance of authenticity and creativity, encouraging young artists to embrace their unique voices. His journey underscores a relentless pursuit of passion amid personal and professional trials.

• Lionel Richie discusses the difficulty of encapsulating his extensive career and life experiences into a book format.
• He humorously recounts submitting a manuscript with a thousand pages, which was deemed too lengthy by the publishers.
• The book focuses on selecting stories that are humorous or educational, as it is impossible to include everything.

"I'm probably the only guy in the world that had a book with probably a thousand pages in it. I turned a thousand pages in. They said, 'What the hell is this?'"

• Richie emphasizes the challenge of condensing a lifetime of experiences into a manageable book length.

"So to answer your question, we can't fit all of my life story in a book, but we just had to find the ones that were actually, you know, humorous in certain cases, educational in certain cases."

• The book selection process involved choosing impactful stories that provide humor and education.

• Writing the book prompted Richie to reflect on his past, which he usually prefers not to dwell on.
• He uses the metaphor of an Italian race car driver's philosophy, focusing on what's ahead rather than what's behind.
• This retrospective process allowed Richie to rediscover himself and acknowledge his journey.

"What this book made me do was actually turn around and look behind me. And I tell you what I discovered. I discovered Lionel Richie."

• The process of writing the book led to a deeper self-awareness and recognition of his life's journey.

• Richie shares insights on resilience, emphasizing the importance of being able to take punches in life and the entertainment industry.
• The entertainment business is described as challenging, with constant rejections and setbacks.
• Maintaining a sense of humor is crucial for survival in such a demanding field.

"A great fighter is not determined by how many punches he can throw. It's how many punches he can take."

• The ability to endure setbacks and continue moving forward is a key trait for success in the entertainment industry.

"I try to say this to the kids on American Idol. I said, 'Listen, I love you. You got a great personality, but you better hope like hell you have a sense of humor.'"

• Richie advises aspiring artists to cultivate a sense of humor as a defense against the industry's challenges.

• Humor is a recurring theme in Richie's life, serving as a coping mechanism during difficult times.
• He recounts his father's advice about maintaining a sense of humor to prevent being overwhelmed by life's challenges.
• Richie reflects on the importance of perspective, particularly in appreciating success and the opportunities he has experienced.

"If you lose your sense of humor, they got you."

• Maintaining humor is vital for resilience and overcoming life's adversities.

"You have to go back and look at this as far as is it really that serious or you know you have to kind of put things in perspective."

• Richie emphasizes the need to maintain perspective and appreciate the positive aspects of life and career.

• Richie recounts the early days of forming the Commodores during his college years.
• The band initially started as a freshman talent show act and evolved into a successful group.
• The Commodores' breakthrough came when they opened for the Jackson 5, leading to a recording opportunity with Motown.

"We started in '68 on the university campus. We were students. It started out as a group called the Mystics."

• The origins of the Commodores trace back to a college talent show, highlighting their humble beginnings.

"We were the opening act for the Jackson 5, their first tour that they went out on, we were the opening act for them."

• Opening for the Jackson 5 was a pivotal moment that propelled the Commodores into the spotlight.

• Richie shares his journey of discovering his musical identity and the realization that he wanted to pursue a career in music.
• He humorously recounts his transition from aspiring Episcopal priest to musician after experiencing the excitement of performing.
• The importance of finding one's unique sound and voice is emphasized, as opposed to imitating others.

"I was going to be an Episcopal priest thinking that's my avenue. And I'm on stage one night at the Jackson Show and all of a sudden some girl said, 'Sing it, baby.'"

• A pivotal moment during a performance led Richie to reconsider his career path and embrace music.

"The only way we have to find out is we have to start not imitating somebody else. Now comes the thing of well but what do we sound like?"

• Emphasizing the importance of developing a unique musical identity rather than imitating others.

• Richie reflects on the serendipitous nature of his career and the unexpected opportunities that arose.
• He describes his experiences at Motown and the influence of legendary artists like Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson.
• The concept of "receiving" inspiration and creativity from silence and introspection is explored.

"I joined this creative source force fraternity sorority of crazy out of control people that gave me permission to dare to listen to myself."

• Joining Motown allowed Richie to embrace his creative instincts and explore his unique musical style.

"Receiving comes from the silence. It's not the noise. It's in the silence."

• Richie highlights the importance of introspection and silence in fostering creativity and inspiration.

• Richie discusses the significance of having a distinctive sound and style in music.
• He emphasizes that true artistry lies in being a stylist rather than just a singer.
• The ability to evoke emotion and be memorable through one's voice is a hallmark of a successful artist.

"I'm not looking for singers. I'm looking for stylist. What's going to make me close my eyes and remember you?"

• Richie seeks artists with a unique style and voice that leaves a lasting impression.

"The blessing was not in having a hit record. The blessing was in having unique sound."

• Achieving a unique sound is seen as more valuable than simply having commercial success.

• Richie shares anecdotes of learning from legendary artists and mentors in the music industry.
• He recounts the informal and organic creative processes of artists like Marvin Gaye.
• The importance of being open to learning and adapting from others is emphasized.

"Watching Marvin record and you keep thinking he walked in with a paper and he had written these lyrics. No man, he is scatting at the microphone."

• Observing Marvin Gaye's creative process provided Richie with insights into organic and spontaneous artistry.

"I found at Motown the whole damn company was tapping on the table."

• Motown's environment encouraged creativity and collaboration, fostering Richie's growth as an artist.

• Simplicity is a key element in creativity and understanding it takes time and experience.
• Overcomplicating music or any art form can lead to disconnection with the audience. Simplicity allows for a more profound connection.
• Creative expression can often be more impactful when stripped down to its core elements.

"The simplicity is the secret."

• Simplicity in music and art allows for a more direct and impactful connection with the audience.

"It's like when you go to a restaurant and they put too much sauce on the steak."

• Overcomplicating art and music can detract from its core essence, similar to how too many embellishments can ruin a dish.

• Creativity cannot be taught; it is an innate ability that some people possess, and others do not.
• Being creative involves seeing and hearing things differently, which is not something that can be learned through traditional education.
• The ability to connect with others and understand them is a natural skill that enhances creative expression.

"You either understand or you don't. You can either hear it, or you don't."

• Creativity is an innate ability to perceive and understand art and music beyond the surface level.

"If you hear me tap on the table and you start and you hear a song, you're a songwriter."

• The ability to transform simple sounds into music is a sign of a natural songwriter's creativity.

• Traditional education systems often do not cater to creative individuals, focusing more on academic achievements.
• Creative individuals often thrive when placed in environments that nurture their talents rather than constrain them.
• Success in creative fields is not necessarily linked to academic performance or qualifications.

"There's academics. They're great. You want them to remember. They can remember. They can recite. They do numbers. And then there's the creatives."

• The distinction between academic and creative individuals highlights the need for different educational approaches.

"No one to this day has ever asked to see my college degree."

• Success in creative fields is not dependent on academic credentials but on talent and perseverance.

• Each person has a unique perspective and way of seeing the world, which should be embraced rather than molded into a standard.
• Allowing individuals to flourish in their unique ways can lead to greater achievements and innovations.
• The current educational and societal systems often try to fit everyone into a single mold, which can stifle creativity.

"Everybody has a unique brain and how they see things. Quit trying to put everybody in this one little box."

• Recognizing and nurturing individual uniqueness can lead to greater personal and societal achievements.

"We'll get more out of kids, we'll get more out of people if you just quit trying to condemn them and let them flourish in their lane."

• Allowing people to follow their own paths and interests can lead to more significant contributions and personal fulfillment.

• Fear and insecurity are common experiences, even for successful individuals, and can be overcome by perseverance.
• Many successful people have faced moments of self-doubt and fear but have continued to push forward.
• The process of overcoming fear is often a journey of self-discovery and growth.

"The thing that scares you to death is the thing you have to keep going forward on."

• Facing and overcoming fears is essential for personal growth and success.

"It's not about how I won. It's how I got not to the peaks, how I survived the valleys."

• Success is not just about achievements but also about overcoming challenges and enduring difficult times.

• Success often comes with sacrifices, and it is essential to understand that not all sacrifices guarantee success.
• Balancing personal life and professional achievements can be challenging, especially when dealing with personal losses.
• The perception of success from the outside often overlooks the personal struggles and sacrifices involved.

"What comes with success are the sacrifices. And even after you make the sacrifices, it's not guaranteed that you're going to win."

• Achieving success often involves significant personal sacrifices, and there's no certainty of success despite these sacrifices.

"At your highest of highs, like the all night long days, you're dealing with your father dying."

• Personal struggles often accompany professional success, highlighting the complexity of achieving and maintaining success.

• The music industry, especially in earlier decades, was fraught with challenges and required a degree of street smarts to navigate.
• Understanding the business side of music is crucial to protect oneself from exploitation and bad deals.
• Relationships in the industry can be complex, often involving figures with questionable backgrounds.

"Once you learn how to steal the money, you know how to stop people from stealing."

• Understanding the business intricacies of the music industry can protect artists from exploitation.

"In our world, Lionel, it's not how long you live, it's how well you live while you're living."

• The music industry often involves navigating complex and sometimes dangerous relationships, emphasizing the importance of living well and making the most of opportunities.

• The conversation highlights the normalization of violence in urban settings, particularly in cities, where people often have a short-term view of long-term societal issues.
• The dynamic between "desirables" and "undesirables" in city culture is discussed, emphasizing how these groups often know each other despite their differences.

"They don't plan on living a long life, but they plan on living well while they're here."

• This quote underscores the acceptance of a transient lifestyle in dangerous environments, where living well in the moment takes precedence over long-term planning.

"It's a short-term view of a very long-term problem that has always been normalized."

• This highlights the ongoing normalization of violence and illegal activities as part of the city's culture.

• The discussion touches on the intersection of legitimate business and criminal activities, particularly in the entertainment industry.
• The music business is portrayed as a "street business," influenced by both cultural and illegal elements.

"Everybody backstage is who they are, not who they say they are."

• This quote reveals the authenticity found behind the scenes, where people's true selves are exposed, often blending legitimate and illicit worlds.

"Gangsters always controlled a certain percentage of what's going on in the streets and cities."

• This statement reflects the historical influence of organized crime in urban business environments, particularly in entertainment.

• The conversation critiques the attempt to legitimize businesses that originated from the streets, such as the music and movie industries.
• There is a sense of loss of authenticity and excitement as these industries become more regulated.

"They legitimized it. They messed the whole thing up."

• This quote conveys the speaker's belief that the excitement and authenticity of street-originated businesses were diminished by attempts to formalize and regulate them.

"We want to do the whole thing. The answer is no. No, man. We messed the whole thing up."

• This emphasizes the speaker's disapproval of the transformation of street businesses into mainstream, regulated industries.

• The discussion explores the impact of fame on personal privacy and the challenges faced by celebrities in maintaining normalcy.
• The experience of Michael Jackson is used as a case study for the overwhelming nature of fame.

"There's a certain level of fame that you achieve that's completely and wholly unmanageable."

• This quote highlights the challenges of managing extreme fame, as seen in the careers of iconic figures like Elvis and Michael Jackson.

"If you can't keep a secret, if you weren't in the building, you can't find out what's happening in the building."

• This reflects on the loss of privacy in the age of instant communication and social media.

• The conversation provides insights into Michael Jackson's life, emphasizing the difficulties he faced due to his unprecedented level of fame.
• His childhood experiences and the protective measures taken by those around him are discussed.

"The Golden Goose needs play period time. He needs playtime."

• This quote underscores the importance of allowing child stars like Michael Jackson to experience normal childhood activities despite their fame.

"They were protecting the Golden Goose, ladies and gentlemen."

• This statement highlights the protective measures taken to shield Michael Jackson from the pressures and dangers of fame.

• Lionel Richie shares his personal experiences with fame, discussing how it affected his life and interactions with others.
• The conversation covers the psychological impact of being constantly in the public eye.

"I hope you like people cuz if you don't, you're not going to like fame."

• This quote emphasizes the necessity for public figures to enjoy interacting with people, as fame involves constant public attention.

"You have to plan where you go. And more importantly, be fully dressed before you leave."

• This reflects the need for celebrities to be cautious and prepared for public interactions at all times.

• The conversation touches on the influence of Muhammad Ali, highlighting his ability to navigate fame and public life.
• Ali's charisma and public presence are discussed as key elements of his enduring legacy.

"You neutralize the room. You can either make it a frenzy. Or you can..."

• This quote illustrates Ali's ability to control public perception and interactions through his charisma and presence.

"He was so loved and a beautiful person."

• This statement reflects the universal admiration for Muhammad Ali and his impact on culture and society.

• The discussion emphasizes the importance of authenticity and genuine experience in achieving success, particularly in creative fields.
• The conversation touches on the unique talents of individuals like Rick Rubin, who possess an innate ability to understand and create music.

"If you have a chance to be around someone that's authentic unto themselves at the same time they're receiving."

• This quote highlights the value of authenticity and receptiveness in personal and professional growth.

"That's a real experience."

• This statement underscores the importance of genuine experiences and insights in creative endeavors and personal development.

• Lionel Richie discusses the impact of mentors like Andy Young on his life, emphasizing the importance of listening and learning from those with vast experiences.
• He highlights the difference between public personas and personal realities, noting that personal interactions reveal true character.
• Richie emphasizes the global perspective he gained from traveling, which influenced his music to resonate worldwide.

"Every time I go to Atlanta, Georgia, who's backstage, greatest fan, greatest mentor ever, Andy Young."

• Richie values the wisdom and experiences shared by Andy Young, considering him a significant mentor.

"Everybody has a front and a back, especially a public narrative."

• Richie points out the distinction between public personas and true personal identities.

"I write a song that the world will understand because you've been to the world."

• His global travels inform his music, aiming for universal resonance beyond just American audiences.

• Richie discusses the tension between creative expression and commercial pressures in the music industry.
• He criticizes the industry's reliance on formulas and algorithms, advocating for authentic and innovative artistic expression.
• The conversation touches on the industry's shift from creative leadership to corporate consolidation and its impact on music.

"Why would anybody challenge authenticity? If someone has an authentic idea, it's who they are at this moment."

• Richie defends the importance of authenticity in artistic expression.

"It's got to be somebody that goes, I want to say this, and no AI can tell you that that's going to touch people."

• He argues that authentic human creativity cannot be replicated by artificial intelligence.

"It used to be wonderful because the creative people were the guys who owned the labels."

• Richie reflects on the past when creative individuals led the music industry, contrasting it with the current corporate-driven environment.

• Richie highlights the ongoing struggle between creative artists and business executives who prioritize profit over artistic integrity.
• He shares anecdotes about the challenges artists face when dealing with non-creative executives.
• The conversation emphasizes the need for creative freedom and the pitfalls of corporate control in the music industry.

"I've got a surprise for Stevie. Um, he turned in his album and I got them to remix his album."

• Richie recounts a misguided executive decision that undermined Stevie Wonder's creative work.

"There are two types of artists: creative artists and created artists."

• He distinguishes between genuine creative talents and those manufactured by the industry.

"They really genuinely think that they know better, but they want control."

• Richie criticizes executives who believe they understand artistry better than the artists themselves.

• Richie discusses the importance of persistence and authenticity in achieving success.
• He emphasizes that true success comes from embracing one's unique qualities and persevering through challenges.
• The conversation touches on the universal struggle of self-doubt and the journey to self-discovery.

"If you know of them, it's they kept going."

• Richie notes that persistence is a common trait among successful individuals.

"The world is designed to make you go away. Don't get psyched out."

• He advises against being discouraged by external pressures and encourages resilience.

"I want to know what your little quirk is. What's that thing?"

• Richie values individuality and the unique traits that set people apart.

• Richie shares insights into his personal growth and the lessons learned from his experiences.
• He reflects on the importance of learning from experienced individuals and the wisdom gained from mentors.
• The conversation highlights the value of vulnerability and honesty in personal and professional development.

"How did I get in that room? So, another title was going to be was fly on the wall."

• Richie expresses gratitude for the opportunities to learn from influential figures.

"When you write a song and everybody comes back to you and says, 'Man, I was feeling the same way.' You got a hit record."

• He equates personal connection and relatability with success in music.

"It's universal. And the difference between a Lionel Richie and Sandy Smith out there who's listening to this is that Sandy Smith hasn't started taking her first steps."

• Richie emphasizes that success is attainable for anyone willing to embark on their journey.

• The discussion touches on how drugs and mental health challenges have influenced the creativity of various artists.
• Richie shares examples of artists whose substance use affected their creative output.
• The conversation explores the complexities of balancing creativity with personal well-being.

"Richard Prior, I use this as my perfect example. I mean, I would just wait for his next what's coming out of his mouth."

• Richie discusses Richard Prior's creative genius and the challenges he faced with substance use.

"There's a phrase for it where you learn your craft under the influence."

• He acknowledges the impact of substances on the creative process for some artists.

"Stephen King wrote entire books and doesn't remember anything about writing them."

• Richie mentions Stephen King's prolific output during periods of substance use, highlighting the complex relationship between creativity and drugs.