Taylor Swift Historians Investigate Her Insane JOEVER Playlists... 🐍 Evolution of a Snake Podcast

In the latest episode of "The Evolution of a Snake," hosts delve into Taylor Swift's newly released playlists, which playfully engage with the fan theory of the five stages of grief. They unpack the implications of these playlists for Swift's relationship narrative, particularly focusing on the theory's validity, the artist's acknowledgment of fan engagement, and the playlists' reflection of her relationship with Joe Alwyn. The hosts, fervent in their analysis, suggest that Swift's songs tell a story of a tumultuous relationship marked by stages of denial, bargaining, and acceptance. They speculate on the depth of Swift's personal revelations in the upcoming album "Tortured Poets" and the dynamic between Swift and Alwyn, drawing parallels with past relationships and highlighting Swift's struggle with privacy versus fame. Additionally, they touch upon the hosts' own content creation and urge fans to join their Patreon for exclusive insights.

• Taylor released a series of playlists on Apple Music inspired by a fan theory about the five stages of grief.
• The playlists are not a direct representation of the five stages of grief but rather Taylor playing along with the fan theory.
• Taylor's engagement with the theory has sparked discussions and speculations among fans.

"If you read the description for the playlist it clearly says that Taylor was inspired by the fan Theory and she decided to play along this the album is not about the five stages of grief."

The quote clarifies that Taylor's album is not based on the five stages of grief but was inspired by the fan theory. It is important as it sets the stage for understanding the context behind the playlists.

• Every song co-written by Joe is included in one of the playlists.
• The inclusion of these songs suggests a narrative about Taylor and Joe's relationship.
• Fans have speculated about the autobiographical nature of Taylor's songs and her relationship with Joe.
• The dynamic between Taylor and Joe is characterized by non-communication and emotional distance.

"It's important to note that every single song that Joe has a co-write on is on one of these playlists."

This quote emphasizes the significance of Joe's contributions to the playlists and implies a deeper connection between the songs and their personal relationship. It is relevant as it hints at the autobiographical elements in Taylor's work.

• Taylor's music often reflects her personal experiences and relationships.
• She has had to obscure personal details to protect herself from criticism.
• Taylor's public persona and her relationship with fame are recurring themes in her work.
• There is a tension between Taylor's desire for a normal life and her identity as a celebrity.

"Taylor had to obscure the fact that she was writing about her problems with Joe in real time by being like this is made up and fictional."

The quote suggests Taylor had to navigate the challenges of sharing personal experiences in her music while maintaining some level of privacy. It highlights the complexity of her role as a public figure and artist.

• The album "Midnights" is interpreted as being about confusion, anticipation of bad events, and emotional distance.
• Songs like "Lavender Haze" and "Snow on the Beach" are dissected for their lyrical content and possible connections to Taylor's personal life.
• Fans analyze the songs for hidden meanings and references to Taylor's relationships, particularly with Joe.

"Midnights is an album about being confused about not knowing what you're going to do next but knowing that something bad is going to happen."

This quote captures the overarching theme of uncertainty and foreboding present in the "Midnights" album. It is relevant because it reflects the emotional state conveyed through the music.

• Taylor's close collaboration with producers like Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner is noted.
• Her need for privacy limits her ability to work with a wider range of producers.
• Trust and confidentiality are crucial in her songwriting process, especially when dealing with personal subject matter.

"Her romantic information is proprietary like she can't just be gossiping about how she feels to anyone and she kind of has to do that to make music."

The quote highlights the intimate nature of Taylor's songwriting and the necessity of trust between her and her collaborators. It explains why her circle of collaborators remains small.

• The sequencing of songs on the playlists is scrutinized for meaning and narrative flow.
• Songs like "Glitch" and "High Infidelity" remain enigmatic to fans despite additional context.
• Fans debate the significance of song placement and their autobiographical elements.

"The sequencing is misguided at the best of times."

This quote suggests that the order of songs on the playlists may not always provide clear insights into their meanings. It underscores the subjectivity in interpreting Taylor's music.

• Discussion about why certain songs, such as "Betty" and "The One," are included or excluded from the playlists.
• Songs from the "Lover" album are of particular interest for their emotional content and connection to Taylor's personal life.
• The inclusion of "Betty" on the "I love you it's ruining my life" playlist is particularly confounding to fans.

"Betty really confounds me here because it's like what the [__] are you talking about this is a LT of songs about getting so caught up in the idea of something that you have a hard time seeing the red flags."

This quote expresses confusion over the inclusion of "Betty" on a playlist about denial and delusion, suggesting that the song's placement may have deeper implications about Taylor's personal experiences.

• Taylor and Mateline engage in armchair analysis, acknowledging they don't claim to know the truth but feel confident in their insights.
• They provide a disclaimer that their discussion is for fun and not to be taken too seriously.
• The conversation is self-aware, with an understanding that their analysis is speculative.

"we do armchair analysis here we don't claim to know the truth even though we absolutely do know the truth um that is just the way that we rock."

This quote emphasizes the casual and speculative nature of their discussion, highlighting that while they don't claim definitive knowledge, they enjoy theorizing and analyzing as if they do.

• The lyrics of "Willow" are dissected, suggesting a narrative of following a partner despite confusion and a desire for guidance.
• Taylor's past relationships are discussed in the context of her needing to be in a relationship to learn about herself.
• The analysis suggests that Taylor may have been convinced to want a life that wasn't truly for her.

"the more that you say the less I know wherever you stray I follow I'm begging for you to take my hands wreck my plans that's my man."

The quote from "Willow" is used to illustrate the theme of following a partner without fully understanding or agreeing with them, showing a willingness to abandon one's plans for the sake of the relationship.

• The conversation suggests that Taylor's relationships often involve a drama triangle of victim, rescuer, and persecutor.
• Taylor is perceived to have a pattern of seeking rescue through relationships, especially when facing struggles.
• The dynamic of the relationship described in "Willow" is seen as unhealthy, with a cycle of outbursts and reconciliations.

"there's like a psychological framework of a drama triangle. and it's like there are three positions that you can take victim, rescuer, and persecutor."

This quote explains the drama triangle concept, which is used to frame the analysis of Taylor's relationships, suggesting she often finds herself in one of these roles within her romantic dynamics.

• "Cruel Summer" is analyzed as a song that, while seemingly upbeat, reveals a narrative of pain and secrecy in a relationship.
• The song's lyrics are interpreted as reflecting the burden of hiding a relationship and the emotional toll it takes.
• There's a discussion of the contrast between the song's production and its underlying message of struggle.

"I'm drunk in the back of the car and I cried like a baby coming home from the bar."

This quote from "Cruel Summer" is used to highlight the disparity between the song's energetic sound and the sadness of the lyrics, which describe a difficult emotional experience after a night out.

• Taylor's song "Lover" is discussed as a Love Song that may have been written with Joe in mind, but now considered a delusion.
• The analysis suggests that Taylor's songwriting often reflects her relationships, with "Lover" being an example of a song that has changed meaning over time.
• The conversation speculates about Taylor's ability to maintain a healthy relationship and her tendency to gravitate towards extreme dynamics.

"I'm highly suspicious that everyone who sees you wants you."

This quote from "Lover" is used to discuss the potential insecurity and possessiveness in Taylor's relationship with Joe, questioning whether it hints at underlying trust issues.

• The song is interpreted as reflecting the isolation and political undertones of Taylor's relationship during the Trump era.
• Taylor's relationship with Joe is seen as a fight, with the song likening it to political strife and a battle to be won.
• The analysis suggests that Taylor's past relationships may have influenced her perception of what a "normal" relationship should be like.

"you were the only one who seems to care."

This quote from "Miss Americana & The Heartbreak Prince" is used to illustrate Taylor's feeling of being understood by Joe amidst a chaotic political and social environment, reinforcing the theme of isolation and struggle within their relationship.

• "False God" is analyzed as a song about a relationship on the brink of falling apart but still held together by intense intimacy.
• The song is interpreted as revealing differences in communication styles between Taylor and Joe.
• The discussion touches on the idea of extremes in relationships and whether Taylor can find a balance between them.

"why do we have to do the Most Extreme Action to get Joe to show me that he cares."

This quote reflects on the song "False God," suggesting that Taylor feels the need to resort to extreme measures to elicit care and attention from Joe, indicating a potentially unhealthy communication pattern in their relationship.

• Taylor has made multiple attempts to leave a relationship.
• She tried to leave on Cornelius Street, Renegade, and Exile.
• Exile may be reminiscing rather than an attempt to leave.

"Taylor tried to leave a couple of times actually... she tried to leave on Cornelius Street, she tried to leave on Renegade, and I think she also tried to leave on exile."

This quote indicates that Taylor has a pattern of trying to end a relationship at various points and in different contexts, suggesting a tumultuous relationship dynamic.

• The song "Elicit of Ferris" is perceived as being silly without deeper meaning.
• It is characterized as an angry song with lines like "don't call me kid, don't call me baby."

"Elicit of Ferris why not why not she was just being silly there... it is an angry song I mean don't call me kid don't call me baby."

The quote reflects the interpretation of the song's tone and lyrics, emphasizing the anger and rejection of diminutive labels by the speaker.

• The discussion moves to a theme of mental illness in the context of the relationship.
• Taylor admits to not having read a book or watched a show, revealing a truth about her experiences.

"Mental illness time I knew it... no you didn't you never did you didn't you haven't read a book you haven't watched a show that's never happened once in your never happened admit it tell the truth."

The quote captures a moment of revelation and acknowledgment of the truth about Taylor's personal experiences, possibly related to her mental health.

• The relationship is framed through the prism of an age gap.
• The feelings expressed are consistent with the overarching narrative.

"Obviously it's written through the prism of an age gap relationship of course."

This quote suggests that the age difference between the partners is a significant factor in the relationship dynamic and influences the narrative of the songs.

• The pandemic affected the relationship, with Joe working and Taylor visiting him.
• Taylor felt neglected and assumed to be fine, despite not being so.

"Joe was filming a lot during the pandemic... and she was like flying to visit him while like kind of not really doing anything not really promoting folklore and evermore because they were like done and out and that was during the pandemic."

The quote describes the impact of the pandemic on the couple's dynamic, with physical separation and a focus on individual responsibilities rather than mutual support.

• "Tolerate It" is analyzed through the lens of the pandemic, highlighting feelings of distance despite physical proximity.
• The song is seen as a reflection of the mindset Taylor was in during the pandemic.

"Tolerate it through the lens of the pandemic all the things that she says I sit and watch you reading with your head low I awake and watch you breathing with your eyes closed."

This quote highlights the intimate yet emotionally distant moments captured in the song, which resonate with the isolation felt during the pandemic.

• Taylor's playlist is seen as a journey through songs written during the bargaining stage of grief.
• The playlist includes songs that reflect desperation and attempts to make things better.

"This playlist takes you through the songs that I've written when I was in the bargaining stage times when you know you're trying to make deals with yourself or someone that you care about."

The quote explains the thematic connection of the songs on the playlist, linking them to the emotional process of bargaining during a period of grief.

• "Peace" is critiqued for its themes of bargaining and proving oneself in a relationship.
• Taylor's lyrics suggest a willingness to sacrifice immensely for the relationship.

"Peace it's just like why always fighting to prove herself to him why is she like at this point we're three years into the relationship like why are you still justifying your love."

The quote conveys frustration with the ongoing need for Taylor to justify her love and commitment in the relationship, despite its duration.

• "Dear Reader" is seen as a song that reflects Taylor's isolation and the need to defend herself.
• The song suggests Taylor felt she had to conform to an idealized version of the relationship.

"Dear reader where I piece in my pen and my friends found friends who care when you literally like I think she isolated herself so much with this love."

This quote reflects the sense of isolation and self-sacrifice Taylor experienced in her relationship, as depicted in the song.

• The relationship is characterized by a dynamic of needing to save and be saved.
• There's speculation about whether the relationship had multiple breakups or periods of distance.

"Well it's so interesting to have a relationship that's like based upon a need... once that dynamic goes away it's like. oh what are we doing then."

The quote discusses the foundation of the relationship being based on a need for salvation and what happens when that need dissipates.

• Songs like "This is Me Trying" are seen as reflecting mental illness.
• The playlist includes songs that deal with depression and repeating patterns of denial.

"This is me trying I mean that literally is a mental ill song."

The quote categorizes "This is Me Trying" as a song that directly addresses mental health struggles, fitting into the broader theme of the playlist.

• The playlist is centered around the five stages of grief.
• "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" is interpreted as a song about profound grief.
• "Soon You'll Get Better" is mentioned as part of the theme, not restricted to relationship grief.
• The playlist is not exclusively about Joe, but a broader theme of grief.

"This playlist she said is about the five stages of grief it's not about the five stages of relationship grief and soon you'll get better also appears elsewhere so she definitely is working I think with a theme larger than that it's not all about Joe clearly."

This quote explains that the playlist is not limited to relationship grief but encompasses the broader concept of grief in its various forms.

• "Hoax" is debated whether it fits within the theme of depression or belongs to another category like anger.
• There's a sense of acceptance and finality in "Hoax," indicating a resignation to grief.
• "Dear Reader" is seen as a song where the singer acknowledges being in crisis.
• The album "Midnights" ends on a somber note, contradicting the perception of its diversity.

"Hoax doesn't belong on this one it belongs elsewhere say that why should be saying it anger you think it belongs in Anger."

This quote reflects the confusion around the placement of "Hoax" within the grief theme and suggests it might be more aligned with anger.

• There's speculation about the songs referencing Joe.
• The songs suggest a silent, distant relationship and a power imbalance.
• "Dear Reader" and "You're Losing Me" are interpreted as indicators of a failing relationship.
• The timeline of the relationship's decline is questioned, with songs like "The Great War" possibly representing a phase of bargaining.

"She's talking about the man she's saying specific. not just there he's physically present. but he's not there the lights are on but no one's home period he's bearing his head in the sand."

This quote suggests that the songs are about a partner who is physically present but emotionally absent, contributing to the theme of grief in the relationship.

• Comparisons are drawn between Joe and previous partners like Jake Gyllenhaal.
• The power dynamics in Taylor's relationships are analyzed, with a focus on dependency and indebtedness.
• The conversation shifts to Taylor's songwriting and her reflections on the authenticity of past love stories.

"Is Joe Owen just like Jake Gyllenhaal 2.0. ca he kind of is think so but worse because it was longer but also."

This quote compares Joe to Taylor's ex-partner Jake Gyllenhaal, suggesting a pattern in her relationships that contributes to the theme of grief.

• The discussion includes the therapeutic aspect of writing songs about a relationship.
• There's a critique of Taylor's decision-making in her personal life and songwriting.
• The importance of music as a means to express and process grief is highlighted.

"If Taylor if Taylor just sucked it up and went to therapy once maybe she would not be in this situation."

This quote critiques Taylor's reliance on songwriting as a form of therapy, rather than seeking professional help, illustrating the intersection of music and emotional processing.

• "Your On Your Own Kid" is seen as a declaration of independence and self-reliance.
• The playlist "I Can Do It With a Broken Heart" symbolizes acceptance and the start of moving forward from loss.
• The songs represent making room for positivity after loss.

"Hey you've made it to my I can do it with a broken heart playlist where we finally find acceptance and start moving forward from loss or heartbreak."

This quote introduces the playlist theme of acceptance and moving forward, indicating a progression through the stages of grief.

• "Midnight Rain" is discussed as a song of realization and acceptance of fame over normalcy.
• "It's Time to Go" and "Evermore" are interpreted as songs about moving on from past events.
• The conversation touches on the difficulty of moving on, as evidenced by song choices that seem to contradict the theme of progression.

"Sometimes walking out leads you to the right thing girl well that's her if I may speak that's. kind of her bag. she's always walking out she's always walking out to find the the right thing the right thing that's your bag well there's the problem is is that there's always a right thing there always is and not everything can do the right thing."

This quote discusses the recurring theme of departure as a means to find something better, which is a part of the broader theme of moving on from grief.