Jean-Luc Charles Finds Fulfillment In Helping Others Through Hard Times

Matt Collins converses with Jean Luc Charles, a multi-faceted professional who balances roles as VP of People, Culture, and DEI at Eileen Fisher, and pastor at the First Haitian Free Methodist Church. Jean Luc reflects on his Amherst College roots and the significance of their 30th reunion. He dives into how his pastoral work informs his HR approach, emphasizing the importance of dignity and community. Discussing Eileen Fisher's adaptive DEI strategy post-George Floyd, he stresses systemic racism's cost on productivity and the necessity of true inclusivity. Jean Luc also touches on future aspirations centered on community and mentorship.

• Jean Luc Charles is a multifaceted individual with significant roles in the fashion industry, religious community, and academia.
• He is the Vice President of People, Culture, and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Eileen Fisher.
• He is also the pastor of the First Haitian Free Methodist Church in Stamford, Connecticut.
• Jean Luc holds a double major in English and Black Studies from Amherst College and two graduate degrees from Duke and Harvard.

"If you go into LinkedIn, you'll see that the first thing that sort of pops up on this guy is that he's on the leadership team of a fashion label called Eileen Fisher. But there's so much more than just his job as vice president of people, culture and diversity, equity and inclusion."

• Jean Luc's multifaceted career and educational background are highlighted.

• Jean Luc works at a fashion company but claims not to have a significant personal fashion sense.
• He emphasizes the importance of texture and material in fashion over color.

"Well, I work at a fashion company. I don't know that I have any real fashion sense. I mean, I've learned to wear black, so that's about it."

• Jean Luc downplays his personal fashion sense despite his professional role in a fashion company.

"What I've learned from ef is that texture matters, material matters. And so when you eliminate the color issue and you start attending to all those things, it actually can be really interesting."

• He acknowledges the importance of texture and material in fashion, which he has learned from his work.

• Jean Luc views his pastoring and HR work as interconnected, focusing on helping people on the margins.
• He believes in a calling to be the best human being and aligning that with a bigger purpose, often on a local scale.
• His work involves spending time with people, listening, and supporting them, whether in a professional or religious context.

"I think that for me, there is a sense of calling, and I use that word very, very carefully because I think it can be a word that people overuse, particularly in Christian circles."

• Jean Luc speaks about the careful use of the term "calling" and its significance in his life.

"Spending time with people, attending to them... matches whether I'm at work doing that or I'm, you know, in the parish meeting with families."

• He emphasizes the importance of spending time with people and attending to their needs in both professional and religious contexts.

• Jean Luc is aware of his power and authority in his roles and strives to honor both his humanity and others'.
• He learned from an HR boss the importance of preserving and uplifting people's dignity, even in difficult situations like firing.

"I'm aware of my own brokenness, but also of my own power... my role requires me to exercise power and sometimes significant power over people's livelihoods."

• Jean Luc acknowledges the power dynamics in his roles and the importance of handling them with care.

"She found a way not only to preserve, but to actually call forward their dignity, regardless of what the decision was."

• He learned the importance of maintaining dignity from an HR boss who could handle difficult conversations with grace.

• Jean Luc finds personal fulfillment in his work, seeing it as a purpose aligned with his faith.
• He is aware of the potential pitfalls, such as developing a savior complex, and the need for boundaries.
• He emphasizes the importance of having people in his life to help manage these boundaries.

"It's an awareness for me that there's also a shadow side to this. I remember going through the savior complex phase where I wanted to be the good guy, I wanted to save everybody."

• Jean Luc discusses the dangers of a savior complex and the importance of self-awareness.

"I'm also aware that I'm doing that and that there's a need to have boundaries around that because that's not always about the other."

• He highlights the necessity of setting boundaries to ensure his actions are appropriate and not self-serving.

• Jean Luc's diverse roles and experiences offer a unique perspective on leadership, community service, and personal fulfillment.
• His insights into the interconnectedness of professional and religious duties, handling power with dignity, and maintaining personal boundaries provide valuable lessons for anyone in leadership or service roles.

• Recognition of personal and collective brokenness is essential in understanding humanity.
• Biblical figures' lives are messy, reflecting the inherent brokenness in everyone.
• Acceptance of personal flaws is a continuous journey and not something to be suppressed or denied.

"I'm trying to live in the awareness of that and of the awareness of my own brokenness so that I am really taking care of myself as I'm taking care of others."

• This quote emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and self-care in the context of recognizing personal and collective brokenness.

"I think the recognition of how messy life is, including how messy the lives, even of people of important figures in the Bible, is a humble reminder of the ground that we're walking on all the time in this work, that we are dealing with brokenness everywhere."

• The quote highlights that even revered figures have messy lives, underscoring the universal nature of brokenness.

"It's been, for me, really hard at times to be able to accept the things that I wish I could change about myself or the areas where I know that I haven't done right or could have done better."

• Acceptance of personal imperfections is challenging but necessary for growth and self-awareness.

• Critiques from non-Christians can provide valuable lessons and help reframe one's role within the faith.
• Recognizing one's humanity and flaws can lead to a more grounded and realistic self-narration.
• The heroic aspect of faith provides hope and motivation but should be balanced with humility and self-awareness.

"The most helpful critique of Christianity has been, for me anyway, the lesson that I've learned from people who are not Christian. And their critique is just that. It's like, hey, you're human and you're sinful and you're wicked, too, so, you know, get off your high horse."

• The quote illustrates how external critiques can lead to a deeper understanding and humility within one's faith.

"That's actually helped me to re narrate myself, like find myself in a different part of the story."

• Re-narrating oneself involves finding a new perspective within the broader narrative of faith.

"It's important, actually, to gather yourself and to try to do something significant and meaningful and purposeful."

• The heroic aspect of faith is valuable for providing hope and combating evil but should be approached with a critical mindset.

• The fashion industry, like many others, faces unique challenges in achieving a diverse workforce.
• Structural barriers such as racism and white supremacy hinder diversity and inclusion.
• Efforts to address these issues include internal reflection, data analysis, and sustained conversations on race and inequality.

"Eileen Fisher has never thought of itself as a fashion brand, per se. I mean, Eileen started this company 40 years ago because she couldn't find comfortable things to wear to do her job as a designer."

• The quote provides context for Eileen Fisher's origins and its organic growth, emphasizing comfort and inclusivity.

"So as the organization has grown and matured, I think the transition for us that we face, like every other organization, is asking, okay, but who's not here? Who's missing at the table?"

• Recognizing who is excluded from the table is crucial for addressing diversity and inclusion.

"Racism and white supremacy create barriers that actually keep people and organizations from reaching their purpose and their value."

• Structural racism and white supremacy are significant barriers to achieving organizational goals and societal potential.

• Post-George Floyd, organizations like Eileen Fisher have turned inward to address systemic racism.
• Building internal capacity and infrastructure to engage with systemic racism is essential.
• Sustained conversations and understanding data are key strategies in addressing these issues.

"After the murder of George Floyd, that was a big watershed moment for our organization. And, you know, we decided to first turn internal."

• The quote highlights the internal focus and reflection initiated by the watershed moment of George Floyd's murder.

"We've been building our capacity, right? So we've been building an infrastructure to be able to engage systemic racism."

• Building capacity and infrastructure is necessary for effectively engaging with and addressing systemic racism.

"It's billions of dollars are lost in productivity because of racism. So people don't think about that. They think of racism as, oh, yeah, yeah, we got to do better. But actually, you're not achieving, you're leaving money on the table."

• The economic impact of racism is significant, affecting productivity and organizational success.

• Technical Fix: Organizations setting numerical targets for diversity, such as hiring a specific number of non-white individuals.
• Adaptive Approach: Focuses on internal values, behaviors, and practices that need change for long-term impact.
• Sustainability: Adaptive work is slower but more sustaining as it involves building capacity and dealing with internal resistance.
• Commitment to Anti-Racism: DEI work must include a strong commitment to anti-racism to be effective.

"We're going to hire x number of non-white people to get us to this number."

• Explanation: This quote illustrates the technical fix approach where organizations set specific diversity targets.

"We've chosen the adaptive work, which has been slower but has actually been more sustaining."

• Explanation: This highlights the preference for adaptive approaches that focus on long-term, sustainable change.

"When your DEI work doesn't have a root and a commitment to anti-racism, it really has lost its most important grounding."

• Explanation: Emphasizes the necessity of anti-racism as the foundation of effective DEI work.

• Meritocracy and Bias: Companies often hire from elite schools or similar socioeconomic backgrounds, neglecting talent from less privileged areas.
• Talent Distribution: There is talent everywhere, but the lack of pipelines prevents diverse talent from accessing opportunities.
• Support Systems: It's crucial to support diverse employees once they are hired, providing them with the tools and orientation needed for success.

"Companies tend to hire people who come from schools where the founders of leadership went or have the same kind of socioeconomic background."

• Explanation: This quote addresses the bias in hiring practices that favor elite backgrounds.

"When will companies really develop the muscle so that there's a fair shot at opportunity for people, regardless of how they look, regardless of their economic advantages?"

• Explanation: Questions when companies will genuinely provide equal opportunities to diverse talents.

"How do we support these employees once they're in? How do we orient them and give them the tools that they need in order to succeed?"

• Explanation: Stresses the importance of ongoing support for diverse employees.

• Profit Motivation: Organizations may embrace diversity when they realize it can be profitable.
• Community Building: Sustainable success comes from building a community where all members are engaged and valued.
• Human Connection: The real difference is made by human beings, not just information or technical fixes.

"When people realize that they can make money by having a more ethnically, racially and otherwise diverse organization, then you'll see those doors fly open."

• Explanation: Suggests that profit motivation can drive diversity efforts in capitalist systems.

"The groups that are always going to find the next level of winning are the ones that build community."

• Explanation: Emphasizes the importance of community building for long-term success.

"It's not enough to, you know, quote unquote, create a seat at the table. It's asking, should we be sitting at a table?"

• Explanation: Advocates for rethinking traditional structures and fostering genuine community.

• Community at Work: The speaker values working with specific individuals who are committed to community and problem-solving.
• Challenges of Diversity: Being a minority in a predominantly different demographic is challenging but rewarding due to supportive relationships.
• Responsibility and Impact: There is a sense of responsibility to address racism and build capacity to face it.

"I want to work with these people. You know, I want to solve problems with them. I want to create problems with them."

• Explanation: Highlights the importance of personal relationships and community in the workplace.

"It's hard being a black man at a predominantly female, predominantly white organization. That's hard. Every single day. That's hard."

• Explanation: Acknowledges the daily challenges faced by minorities in less diverse environments.

"Racism is one of the most pernicious rate delimiters. It's keeping us, all of us back."

• Explanation: Stresses the widespread negative impact of racism on society and the need to address it.

These notes provide a comprehensive overview of the key themes and ideas discussed in the transcript, offering detailed insights and verbatim quotes for deeper understanding.

• White supremacy is identified as a fundamental cause of various crises, including healthcare, climate, technology, and geopolitical issues.
• The inability to address and name white supremacy is seen as a barrier to solving these critical problems.
• The urgency of addressing these issues is emphasized, particularly in the context of future generations and sustainability.

"It's the inability to name and to deal with the system of white supremacy that we've constructed and are all a part of."

• This quote highlights the systemic nature of white supremacy and its pervasive impact on various societal issues.

"There's deep urgency, and racism is a part of that urgency."

• This underscores the critical need to address racism as part of the broader effort to solve pressing global issues.

• The conversation touches on the personal experiences and motivations for attending Amherst College.
• The influence of mentors and specific academic programs played a significant role in the decision to attend Amherst.
• The college environment is described as empowering and instrumental in personal development.

"Harold Atwood. Harold. Jeff Atwood. And I don't remember Harold's class, but he was my AP American and AP European history teacher at West Hill High School."

• This quote illustrates the significant influence of a high school teacher in the decision to attend Amherst.

"Turns out that Amherst didn't have a math and science requirement for graduation. And so I was like, oh, that's the school for me."

• The absence of certain academic requirements at Amherst was a deciding factor for the speaker.

"Once you were in, you were empowered to just kind of go and think and figure things out, and it was just an amazing experience."

• This quote highlights the empowering and intellectually stimulating environment at Amherst College.

• The speaker reflects on their future aspirations, focusing on community involvement and mentoring.
• There is a desire to move beyond survival concerns to contribute more meaningfully to the community.
• The importance of generosity and connection with others is emphasized.

"Whatever it is, it'll be in community, meaning, you know, who am I helping to come up next?"

• The speaker's future plans are centered around community support and mentorship.

"So much of the last, the first 50 have been, for me, survival."

• This quote reflects the speaker's past focus on personal survival and the desire to shift towards community engagement.

"Being able to be really present in my community where I live, contributing to that mentoring and being an elder."

• The speaker aspires to be more present and active in their community, offering mentorship and support.

• The speaker provides information on how to get in touch with them, emphasizing LinkedIn as the primary platform.
• There is an openness to connecting with others and engaging in conversations.

"LinkedIn. I'm not on any other social media. I have an Instagram account, but I just use it to view. I don't actually socialize on it, but LinkedIn."

• LinkedIn is identified as the best way to connect with the speaker.

"I love getting contact with people and love hearing from people and, you know, love talking to people."

• The speaker expresses enthusiasm for connecting and engaging with others.

• The speaker suggests reaching out to Amritha Seti for future conversations, highlighting her work in medicine and diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• There is an appreciation for the contributions of others and a desire to hear diverse perspectives.

"I would love for you to reach out to Amritha Seti. She and I connected, and she was talking about her work in medicine and then the intersection of that with some things that she's doing in diversity, equity, inclusion."

• This quote emphasizes the interesting and valuable contributions of Amritha Seti in the fields of medicine and DEI.

"I'm a big fan of her and her work. And you're right. We both actually had a chance to see her in a social context here recently, and that just sort of reaffirmed for me that she absolutely belongs here in the rotation."

• The speaker's endorsement of Amritha Seti underscores her relevance and the value she would bring to future discussions.