In this episode, Cliff Obrecht, co-founder and COO of Canva, shares the story of how he and Melanie Perkins grew Canva from a small startup in Perth, Australia, to a $40 billion company. Despite facing over a hundred rejections from VCs in Silicon Valley, their persistence paid off as they secured funding and scaled the business to 60 million users and 2000 employees. Cliff discusses the early challenges, including accruing technical debt and the decision to halt new features to rebuild the platform. He emphasizes the importance of aligning goals, transparent communication, and the significance of perseverance, both in business and philanthropy. Cliff and Melanie's approach to wealth, opting to put 99% of their equity into philanthropic efforts, reflects their values and desire to contribute to solving global issues efficiently.
"Oh, it probably goes back earlier than Canva. Mel was teaching design at university and realized that it sucked. It was really complex. It took about six months to learn the professional graphic design tools at the time, whilst at the same time people were using, I think it was Myspace at the time, Facebook, they were collaborating, they were sharing content and she gets all the credit. She was like, in the future, creation is going to be totally different. It's going to be online, it's going to be collaborative and it's going to be easy."
This quote explains the initial realization and inspiration behind Canva. Melanie Perkins, observing the difficulties her students faced with existing design tools, foresaw a future where design could be more accessible and collaborative, which eventually led to the creation of Canva.
"The thing with me is I just don't think too much and I don't think through how hard things are going to be. And that naivety probably plays well because I'm just like, oh, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Let's go for it. What do we need to do? Let's unpack this problem we need to solve. Okay, we need some money. Where do we get money from? Silicon Valley's got heaps of money. Let's go to Silicon Valley."
Cliff Obrecht describes his approach to seeking investment as one characterized by naivety and a straightforward mindset. The quote reveals his decision-making process and the bold step of seeking investment in Silicon Valley, despite the challenges involved.
"So that was our ticket into Silicon Valley and it was really fortuitous. Bill Tai is a venture capitalist in the Bay Area. You should have him on the show. He's an awesome guy, but a mad keen kite surfer."
This quote highlights the unconventional way in which networking and personal interests (kite surfing) played a pivotal role in Cliff and Melanie's journey to secure investment for Canva. It underscores the importance of leveraging unique opportunities and connections.
"Firstly, persistence pays off. You need to have some semblance of a good idea, but persistence really pays off."
This quote encapsulates Cliff's belief in the power of persistence in achieving success, suggesting that while having a good idea is necessary, the determination to see it through is equally important.
"I think it was very much used to be lead by example, work hard and accomplish things, and hopefully people would follow. I think now it's just like honesty."
This quote describes the shift in Cliff Obrecht's leadership style over time, moving from a model of hard work and example-setting to one grounded in honesty and transparent communication.
"But I used to be a school teacher, and I taught at one of the most underprivileged schools in Western Australia. A lot of the students there were refugees from Africa, Middle east, and parts of Asia. These people, ex child soldiers, they'd been to the most horrific things. They started life with a really big disadvantage."
This quote highlights the challenging backgrounds of Cliff's former students and the adversity they faced, setting the stage for his appreciation of their progress and achievements.
"Most things are just a game, really. We're fortunate we live in Australia. We have a social safety net."
This quote explains Cliff's perspective on life and business as a game, and the security provided by social safety nets in Australia.
"So, short answer. Yes, absolutely. And still have it very much to this day when we meet sort of fancy people."
This quote acknowledges Cliff's ongoing struggle with impostor syndrome, particularly when interacting with highly successful individuals.
"I love hiring internally. We love building talent."
This quote expresses Cliff's preference for nurturing and promoting talent from within the company.
"You essentially just need to align the company you're acquiring or the person's goals with your goals."
This quote encapsulates Cliff's philosophy on deal making, highlighting the importance of aligning objectives for successful partnerships.
"The most important thing for me is trust."
This quote underscores the significance of trust in relationships with investors and in business dealings generally.
"The other hardest thing we ever done were about five years into canva. And we realized when you're a startup, right, you have to make tradeoffs."
This quote reflects on the tough decisions and challenges that startups face, such as managing technical debt while growing the business.
"It was supposed to be one year, but it took two years in the middle of canva's growth journey. Call it from year four to six, we're at year ten now. And that was a death march."
The quote explains the unexpected extension of Canva's feature development halt and acknowledges the difficulty of this period.
"We have had so many copycats over the years. Mel doesn't ever look at competition. She's like, fuck the competition. We've got this ten year vision."
This quote highlights Mel's disregard for competitors and her commitment to Canva's long-term goals.
"First to market is important, but user acquisition is just as important."
This quote emphasizes the dual importance of being first to market and mastering user acquisition strategies.
"We are going to launch the most delightful product to our users and offer it for free, which is the freemium model."
The quote illustrates Canva's strategy to build a high-quality product and offer it for free to attract users.
"You don't want to boil the ocean. You want to solve a problem for someone that has that problem, solve that problem really well."
This quote explains the strategy of focusing on a specific problem for a niche market before expanding to broader markets.
"We were incredibly lucky to bring on a third co-founder, Cam, and he was at Google, he wasn't quite technical, but we palmed him off as the technical co-founder because he could write JavaScript."
The quote discusses the importance of having a technical co-founder and how Cam's skills contributed to Canva's development.
"People don't know what they don't know. It's the whole Henry Ford. If you ask them people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse."
This quote reflects on the idea that consumers may not always know what advancements are possible, likening it to Henry Ford's philosophy.
"We hate good enough. Good enough is not good enough. We aspire and are world class across our key product areas."
The quote conveys Canva's commitment to delivering high-quality, world-class products and not settling for mediocrity.
"We have more than enough with what we have. So Mel and I, we own 31% of canva, and we put 30% so, like, 99% of what we own into a charity."
This quote highlights Cliff and Mel's decision to dedicate the majority of their Canva shares to charitable causes.
"I actively don't angel invest. I do do some just because it's like a great person."
The quote reveals Cliff's personal stance on angel investing and his criteria for backing projects.
"I've never flown on a private jet before, but I'm very keen to be invited on someone else's."
Cliff is interested in the experience of flying on a private jet but prefers not to spend his own money on such luxuries.
"An example of that is I spend on a personal trainer because it makes me fitter and healthier and I could never afford to before."
Speaker B's quote highlights the value of investing in personal health and fitness, which can also lead to improved performance in business.
"We just have experiential holidays, and that means a lot to us, and that's where we get the most of our joy."
Cliff's quote underlines the significance of investing in experiences that bring joy and create lasting memories.
"Melanie. I have only been married two years, but we were dating 16 years before that, so we've been together for 18 years."
This quote reflects on the long-term relationship between Cliff and Melanie, emphasizing the importance of friendship in their marriage.
"We endeavor to. We have this thing where we're like, no work talk, and then we're not talking about work."
The quote illustrates their attempt to separate work from personal life to maintain balance and the importance of doing so for long-term sustainability.
"Oh, I think if either of us were dating anyone else, we would both be dumped, because we're both kind of neglectful partners at times."
The quote highlights the mutual understanding and support that comes with co-founding a company with one's partner.
"I think you need to give that space to kids to find their own path and cut their own course."
The quote reflects Cliff's belief in nurturing independence and values in children, allowing them to grow into self-reliant individuals.
"We ended up getting a lady in for a few hours for about a week, and she really just whipped us into gear."
This quote reveals the benefits of professional guidance in parenting, particularly in establishing routines for children.
"I've read a lot of business books over the years, but now when I'm going to bed, at night, I want some trash."
Cliff's quote indicates his preference for light, entertaining reading material to unwind at the end of the day.
"I think the world has enough good intentions and capital to solve the world's problem."
The quote captures Cliff's perspective on philanthropy and the necessity of creating systems that effectively channel resources to address problems.
"I don't think so. It's hard. Tell me, although Glenn is a punishment, likely we'll probably do."
The quote expresses Cliff's hesitance to embark on another startup due to the difficulties experienced, yet he remains open to project-based endeavors.
"How hard having a kid is. I used to tell Mel when she was pregnant, which she used to hate."
This quote reveals Cliff's newfound understanding and respect for the complexities of parenthood.
"Perseverance, kindness, being curious. And a sense of adventure."
The quote lists the qualities Cliff values and wishes to see in his child, highlighting his aspirations for her character development.
"Bob has a very values first approach to business. It really resonates what's best for the customer, what's best for the employees."
Cliff's quote emphasizes the importance of a values-driven approach in business leadership, as exemplified by Bob Iger.
"I guess a lot of the people management stuff, I've really evolved how to get the best out of people."
The quote underscores Cliff's personal growth in managing people and the importance of clear communication and shared objectives.
"The amount of investors that rejected us because they said, I like to ride my bike to my startups, I'm like, fuck off."
The quote critiques the previously narrow view of some investors and celebrates the changing attitudes towards startups outside traditional hubs.
"We really believe as the web and the world become increasingly visual places, canva is in prime position to really help through that transition."
The quote conveys Cliff's optimism for Canva's future impact on visual communication and its alignment with the web's evolution.
"Cliff is just such a wonderful, awesome leader. Such humility, such authenticity."
The final quote from Speaker B summarizes Cliff's leadership qualities, highlighting his humility and authenticity.